911 prices on the rise... again

[javadog]

BTW, why would a company like Bloomberg hire a fairly clueless person to write about cars? Her articles clearly indicate she doesn't know half of what she needs to know. Perhaps she knows more than the average Bloomberg reader, and that's enough?

Pathetic.

JR

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Until Irwin Komenda, the designer of the 911, during an early 80's beyond the grave cameo appearance, made Dr. Wendelin Wiedekin draw the 911 lifespan on the chalkboard with a line indicating perpetuity.

I think you're referring to Peter Schutz.

[javadog]

I think he's being facetious. Yeah, the original story was about Peter...


JR

[billh1963]

https://www.hagerty.com/Articles-Videos/Articles/2016/01/04/Hagerty-Price-Guide-29?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_ter m=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=Hagerty%20Weekly%20Ne ws%201-6-2016

With only a few exceptions Hagerty says the market is slowing

[KNS]

^^ Well I see that as good news since it's been so nuts lately.

[Skwerl]

There are a few auctions this month that will be pretty interesting to watch.

Arizona 2016 | Classic Car Auctions | RM Sotheby's

Barrett-Jackson Auction Company - World's Greatest Collector Car Auctions

https://www.mecum.com/view-lots.cfm?auctionid=FL0116&featureValue=ALL

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Avanti

Have to disagree on VW being a good car. Build quality perhaps, but reliability not so much. Same goes for Audi. I bite my tongue when I say this but for a reliable vehicle with low maintenance costs which is what I perceive as a good car, I would go Toyota or Honda especially in the entry level segment.

Problem is you have to drive a Honda or Toyota.

It means that the folks who think this have had bad luck buying VWs or Audis. And by bad luck, I mean they bought cars that weren't good cars to begin with. I have owned a string of Audis, for over two decades. And before that, watercooled VWs. Feed them the proper oil at the proper interval, do the suggested maintenance with quality parts on time, and fix the stuff that breaks, and they'll reward you with years of service. And the stuff that breaks is all the same stuff that breaks on those Japanese cars. And oddly, it costs about the same to fix, and sometimes less (have you seen the cost of Toyota parts lately? Who do they think they are, Porsche???) In fact, my least favorite car was a Honda Accord my wife owned. That damn thing was always needing one thing or another. She would borrow my Audi all the time while her "bulletproof" Honda was in the shop. She would always tell everyone how reliable her car was, right up until the time I gave her a copy of a four year spreadsheet where I tabulated the running time and costs for her Honda, and my Audi. She sold her Honda and bought an Audi.

[Palum6o]

Not surprised by the F355 values... much cheaper than most 911s you see on CL and ebay these days... just wish I had a large enough wallet to absorb the maintenance on them or better yet the know how to work on them myself!

[stratofortress]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It means that the folks who think this have had bad luck buying VWs or Audis. And by bad luck, I mean they bought cars that weren't good cars to begin with. I have owned a string of Audis, for over two decades. And before that, watercooled VWs. Feed them the proper oil at the proper interval, do the suggested maintenance with quality parts on time, and fix the stuff that breaks, and they'll reward you with years of service., And the stuff that breaks is all the same stuff that breaks on those Japanese cars. And oddly, it costs about the same to fix, and sometimes less (have you seen the cost of Toyota parts lately? Who do they think they are, Porsche???) In fact, my least favorite car was a Honda Accord my wife owned. That damn thing was always needing one thing or another. She would borrow my Audi all the time while her "bulletproof" Honda was in the shop. She would always tell everyone how reliable her car was, right up until the time I gave her a copy of a four year spreadsheet where I tabulated the running time and costs for her Honda, and my Audi. She sold her Honda and bought an Audi.

So, what you're saying is this-- if you always fix the stuff that breaks on your car, you can have a car that lasts for years? Well, I certainly would hope so. But how far are you willing to go is the question. Therein lies the difference between a Japanese car and a German car-- Japanese cars rarely break, and when they do they aren't catastrophic failures as seen so often on the German counterparts. As for the "and the stuff that breaks is all the same stuff that breaks on those Japanese cars" comment-- I have no choice but to assume you were being sarcastic.

Audi, Mercedes, BMW and so forth are poor choices as RELIABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE means of transportation. Sure there are always anecdotal exceptions, but saying that Audi is on the same reliability plane as Toyota or Honda is opinion rooted in nothing but one's personal account. Do you go around telling your friends who drive Toyotas for low-cost commuting to get into a rock-solid Audi?

Honda and Toyota resale value is driven by reliability, period. Not the suspension damping or ability to soak up miles on an autobahn at 155 mph. When talking about non-collector automobiles, almost all resale is based off reliability. So why then are Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, (and Porsche until recently) etc constantly at the bottom of the list? Are these the hidden gems in the used car market? There's a "prestige" used car dealer near my house that sells nothing but S classes and 7 series. Maybe I should wise up and even-trade my Prius.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Maybe I should wise up and even-trade my Prius.

Christ, I would. I'm surprised you admit to owning one. Talk about a soul-less appliance on wheels. Why not take the bus?

I used to be a Honda dealer, so I know a little about how they got their reputation. Not bad cars, by any stretch, but not foolproof either. Toyota is the same way. Good, but not perfect. Ask a Tundra owner.

Even the upmarket brands have issues. A Lexus is a good car but I can tell you about one that needs a new motor and Lexus isn't stepping up to the plate.

None are perfect, so as long as I'm going to spend money on something, I'm going to enjoy the ride.

JR

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Therein lies the difference between a Japanese car and a German car-- Japanese cars rarely break, and when they do they aren't catastrophic failures as seen so often on the German counterparts.

LMAO. You're living in a fantasy land if you think this is true. I know for a fact that Toyota owners often tell the lie that their car has never had any issues, when in fact they've spent plenty of time in the shop. This lie builds on itself, because people buy cars based on which cars have the least self-reported issues, and confirmation bias perpetuates the same story-telling. Only recently has the Japanese car myth of reliability started to show cracks. I always wondered what people were whining about with German cars. My buddy's Acura was in the shop several times a year, while my Audis were never down for anything more than oil changes. My wife's Honda is a classic example of the fallacy of self-reporting. Even now, she tells people how great that Honda was. It wasn't great. It's reliability was WORSE than my German cars. Sure, you can claim small, non-scientific sample when looking at the data I present. But where is the objective data on reliability? Don't say CU or Edmunds. Both are self-reported. Non-scientific, and hugely prone to confirmation bias.

[stratofortress]

Originally Posted by javadog

Christ, I would. I'm surprised you admit to owning one. Talk about a soul-less appliance on wheels. Why not take the bus?

I used to be a Honda dealer, so I know a little about how they got their reputation. Not bad cars, by any stretch, but not foolproof either. Toyota is the same way. Good, but not perfect. Ask a Tundra owner.

Even the upmarket brands have issues. A Lexus is a good car but I can tell you about one that needs a new motor and Lexus isn't stepping up to the plate.

None are perfect, so as long as I'm going to spend money on something, I'm going to enjoy the ride.

JR

Again, anecdotal. Lexus is the most reliable car company on the planet.

I'll tell you why I drive a Prius though!

- 55+ mpg
- Dead-reliable
- Easy to work on (HSD components aside, but those are warranted 8rs 100k miles. Keep in mind, Prius' are taxis in NY.)
- My 911 SC and Ducati 998 keep me entertained when I'm in the mood to play

The fact that the Prius ("C" in my case) is so insanely economical is the fun part. Not wasting away gallons of gasoline sitting in traffic also makes sense to me. Also having a clean seven-year MVR is fun, and the Prius supports that to say the least. I can maximize my economy on the day to day, and leave more money left over for the toys. I've done the whole "drive a fun car as a daily" thing, many times. My toys suddenly became less exciting. I'm funny that way though. I don't need to overdose on adrenaline during my Atlanta commute to work. I love taking a step back and appreciating the beastly machines I have waiting for me when the time is right. Then again, I'm 29 and have a lot to learn.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Again, anecdotal. Lexus is the most reliable car company on the planet.

Really? Most reliable? Prove it with objective data.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Then again, I'm 29 and have a lot to learn.

Eric wears jockstraps older than you are (so I hear)!!!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Eric wears jockstraps older than you are (so I hear)!!!

Now that you mention it, that might actually be literally true. I think I still have a functional jock from my soccer days sitting in a drawer. LOL.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Again, anecdotal. Lexus is the most reliable car company on the planet.

I'll tell you why I drive a Prius though!

- 55+ mpg
- Dead

Fixed your post

[stratofortress]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Really? Most reliable? Prove it with objective data.

Carsurvey.org - Car Reviews

Knock yourself out!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Again, anecdotal. Lexus is the most reliable car company on the planet.... Then again, I'm 29 and have a lot to learn.

Since you have no first-hand knowledge of car reliability statistics, your statement is anecdotal as well. Something you read on the internet, I'd bet. We all know how reliable that can be.

Most car reliability surveys are based on limited viewpoints. I'm sure you are familiar with the JD Power survey of initial quality, crap that went wrong in the first year, etc. Not super accurate in predicting quality over the life of a vehicle. My experience was years of first hand experience with hundreds and hundreds of Hondas. Like I said, no brand is perfect.

I drive an Audi S8 every day. Or whenever I get out of the house, however often that is. I realize that I get so many miles on this planet, so many meals, so many hours of free time. I tend not to waste any of them.

Hell, when I was your age my daily driver was a 930. In another 29 years, you might get to where I am, outlook-wise.

Enjoy your refrigerator.

JR

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Carsurvey.org - Car Reviews

Knock yourself out!

I said objective. Self-selected surveys are not objective. Try again?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by javadog

Most car reliability surveys are based on limited viewpoints. I'm sure you are familiar with the JD Power survey of initial quality, crap that went wrong in the first year, etc. Not super accurate in predicting quality over the life of a vehicle.

AND self-selected AND no controls for folks who might have "forgotten" to report an issue.

About as non-scientific as it gets.