911 prices on the rise... again

[stratofortress]

Originally Posted by javadog

Since you have no first-hand knowledge of car reliability statistics, your statement is anecdotal as well. Something you read on the internet, I'd bet. We all know how reliable that can be.

Most car reliability surveys are based on limited viewpoints. I'm sure you are familiar with the JD Power survey of initial quality, crap that went wrong in the first year, etc. Not super accurate in predicting quality over the life of a vehicle. My experience was years of first hand experience with hundreds and hundreds of Hondas. Like I said, no brand is perfect.

I drive an Audi S8 every day. Or whenever I get out of the house, however often that is. I realize that I get so many miles on this planet, so many meals, so many hours of free time. I tend not to waste any of them.

Hell, when I was your age my daily driver was a 930. In another 29 years, you might get to where I am, outlook-wise.

Enjoy your refrigerator.

JR

JR, I guess there are just fundamental differences in how we each define happiness.

Enjoy your overcompensator.

[thamlin000]

Here's my experience with Toyota/Lexus. I drive around 35k mi per year for work, so reliability is #1 priority in my book.

Lexus:
1. '01 Lexus IS300 automatic: owned 2008-11. Mileage during my ownership 73k-151k. No repairs. Oil/tires/brakes/wipers only.
2. '05 Lexus IS300 5-speed: owned 2011-present. Mileage during my ownership 82k-217k. Repairs so far are two O2 sensors. Other than that, only oil, tires, brakes, wipers, windshields and belts. Everything still works on this car!

My folks and bro-in-law have a Lexus too:
3. '10 250 IS: approx 50k mi. No repairs needed ever. They owned since '12.
4. '05 350 ES: approx 100k mi. No repairs needed ever. Owned since new.

I also owned a 04 Tundra and 96 4Runner in the past. The 4Runner ownership was brief; 170k-190k mi. It needed a starter at around 180k mi. The Tundra was perfect from 12k-38k mi when I sold it.

So.....there is my first hand experience.

Me = Lexus and Toyota: 259k mi: one starter and two O2 sensors.
Family = Lexus: Approx 130k mi: no repairs

Another interesting takeaway; aside from the Tundra, my cars were already mid-high miles when I bought them. All those trouble-free miles were/are in high mile cars; not new cars where you expect reliability under 50k mi.

[thamlin000]

double post.

[stratofortress]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I said objective. Self-selected surveys are not objective. Try again?

I refuse to put any effort in making you think less about your dependable Audi. If you are truly advocating that your German sled is on average more reliable than a Lexus/Toyota/Honda/Kenmore, I'll go ahead and stop here.

As much as I enjoy these debates, I want the world to have people such as yourself in it. A world where I can learn from others' mistakes. Thank you for saving me money so I can focus it on more important and fun things. Do you take PayPal?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

JR, I guess there are just fundamental differences in how we each define happiness.

Enjoy your overcompensator.

It's true. We are all different. I didn't have Hamburger Helper for dinner last night, I had something more tasty. I'd imagine they sell more Hamburger Helper than what I had, so opinions must vary.

About the overcompensator thing... Not why I drive it. I could have something newer, faster, better. I don't. That's not what it's about. It's just a Hell of a car.

The esteemed David E Davis once opined that it was essentially a perfect car. Maybe his favorite. I tend to agree with him. Considering that he sat his butt in virtually everything there was to drive, up until his demise, you might give his opinion some consideration.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Do you take PayPal?

I TAKE PAYPAL! Shall I send you an invoice?

JR

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

I refuse to put any effort in

Exactly. You refuse to put any effort in, because like every other 29-year-old, you already know all there is to know. Well, you're driving a Prius, so maybe your value system has a certain bias already, hmmm? So, you don't find it curious, at all, that the German cars that I have owned have all been dead-reliable, and have never had mileage/age-inappropriate repairs to be made (things consumable, like tires and shocks/strut inserts) and have done yeoman duty in all sorts of climate? Maybe you consider it some kind of crazy fortune that my cars are just as reliable as Japanese cars are purported to be, but often aren't, when you look at real data? Sure, maybe it's just a 9-car anomaly. Yeah, that has to be it! There is a very good reason that Honda and Toyota have been slipping in reliability ratings. And the reason is that the self-feeding myth of "these cars never need repair" is finally being exposed. And, strangely, German cars are starting to catch up. Huh.

Maybe you should put some effort in to finding out why some of us actually have some seemingly astounding luck with cars that aren't from Japan. And why self-reported data really isn't data at all.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Enjoy your overcompensator.

Spoken like somebody who has never even sat in an S8, let alone driven one. LOL.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by javadog

I drive an Audi S8 every day.

I loved the D2 S8 that I got to drive for a month. That car did everything a car should do. Except one thing. It had an automatic transmission. I so much wanted a 6-speed in that car. But everything else was brilliant. It was effortless everywhere, and I unintentionally broken the speed limit so many times...

The intentional breaking of the speed limit was so without drama or fuss - I can see how seductive these cars are. I wanted one immediately. If I could get one with the six-speed, I would. Immediately.

[Mick_D]

YEah, Consumer Reports surveys are ****.
1. Lexus - 10 most reliable car brands - Consumer Reports - CNNMoney

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by stratofortress

Therein lies the difference between a Japanese car and a German car-- Japanese cars rarely break, and when they do they aren't catastrophic failures as seen so often on the German counterparts. As for the "and the stuff that breaks is all the same stuff that breaks on those Japanese cars" comment-- I have no choice but to assume you were being sarcastic.

Audi, Mercedes, BMW and so forth are poor choices as RELIABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE means of transportation. Sure there are always anecdotal exceptions, but saying that Audi is on the same reliability plane as Toyota or Honda is opinion rooted in nothing but one's personal account. Do you go around telling your friends who drive Toyotas for low-cost commuting to get into a rock-solid Audi?

Honda and Toyota resale value is driven by reliability, period. Not the suspension damping or ability to soak up miles on an autobahn at 155 mph. When talking about non-collector automobiles, almost all resale is based off reliability. So why then are Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, (and Porsche until recently) etc constantly at the bottom of the list? Are these the hidden gems in the used car market? There's a "prestige" used car dealer near my house that sells nothing but S classes and 7 series. Maybe I should wise up and even-trade my Prius.

Back in 2010 my '06 BMW 3 left me stranded on the side of the road for the 2nd time in 2 years.
I literally went out the next day and purchased a CPO 2008 Acura TL with 23K miles. The car has been a dream. It just crossed the 100K mark and has consumed nothing but oil, one set of brakes and tires. Even the shocks are still in great shape. Sometimes recently I've thought about trading up/new, but the way the car rides and performs, I say why bother? I am a true convert to Japanese quality and performance for my DD.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

YEah, Consumer Reports surveys are ****.

Yeah, when it comes to cars, I agree with you. Probably not a single "car guy" on their staff.

Out of curiosity, i had a look at that. It ranked Audi as number three, 5 places ahead of Honda. That caught my attention, so I read what they had to say about Honda:

Honda (HMC) makes very dependable cars, but it dropped four places from last year in the reliability rankings. Owners complained the most about problems with the "infotainment" systems on Honda's new and redesigned models, according to the magazine.

So, it seems we learned a few things. One, it's an annual ranking of new car problems, since it's compiled yearly. Sort of like the JD Power thing.

Two, it's based on a survey of owners. Owners *****ing about their problems. That's scientific.

Three, looking at the problem that dropped them 4 places in a year, I'd wager $100 that the problems aren't from something breaking, they're from owners that find it hard to figure out how to work the system in question. Not limited to Honda, in my experience. Remember when BMW came out with I-drive?

Based on my experience as a Honda dealer, that's because very few new car owners ever read their owners manuals. VERY few.

SO, I'd toss that survey in the round file.

JR

[Mick_D]

The data doesn't come from Consumer Reports writers. The data comes from Consumer Reports surveys of their readers. I'd imagine that means there's more than one or two car guys in the responses.
Buti what the **** do I know?

[javadog]

Okay, I'll break it down.

Consumer Reports is not a magazine written by car guys. It is written by, and for, people concerned with squeezing the most (whatever) out of the least (dollars.) Sort of the antithesis of a car guy.

So, it's fair to say not all that many car guys subscribe to it. Therefore, it is unlikely that a car guy is their average reader, and I'd further bet that their average reader knows **** about cars.

Just between you and me, I always want to hear the opinions from the people that know the least about something. Right?

Read the owners reviews on the Tire Rack web site, or go read Yelps reviews. Some of the most useless, contradictory crap you'll ever waste time reading. Same deal.

What would be significant is having the manufacturers share their failure rates for given components. Rest assured, they know the failure rate of every part in every car they make, at least through the warranty period. That would be useful.

Instead, you get complaints from people that had a problem with something, or were to stupid to use it (Referring to what killed Honda this year.) They don't differentiate between the two...

JR

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

The data doesn't come from Consumer Reports writers. The data comes from Consumer Reports surveys of their readers. I'd imagine that means there's more than one or two car guys in the responses.
Buti what the **** do I know?

There are two biases there. One, the kind of folks who use CU as a data source. Two, the subset of those folks who want to self-report (with no control over whether or not the report is accurate).

It's about the opposite of science.

[Mick_D]

You guys are ****ing impossible. CU is the standard for consumer information.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

You guys are ****ing impossible. CU is the standard for consumer information.

Just because you say the Earth is flat doesn't mean it is. CU is opinion-based. There are no objective standards. In addition, there are no controls over what gets reported by whom, or how factual it is. There is a metric assload of information on the internet about why CU isn't the end-all, be-all of consumer info, and in fact why some of the info on CU is nothing more than groupthink. If you don't understand the limitations of the information, then you're not in any position to defend its quality.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Just because you say the Earth is flat doesn't mean it is.

One thing's for certain, Eric, if I say that impact bumper, non-Turbo 911s look better with Carrera tails, then I guarandamntee you that it's so!!!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

One thing's for certain, Eric, if I say that impact bumper, non-Turbo 911s look better with Carrera tails, then I guarandamntee you that it's so!!!

I will punch your whiskey delta face for that.

[Rich Gas]

Ooooooooooo, slap him instead....Slap him hard.