3.2 cars the next big thing?

[Nick Triesch]

Years ago I owned a 63 356B. I sold it after 10 years. I remember reading an expert who said 20 years ago that he felt the 356 would never command big prices. Well that guy was wrong. Then there is ALL my old buyers guides of 15 years ago that said stay away at all costs from the mid years cars because of bad motors and corrosion. Look at them now!! As for the 3.2 cars we all know that Porsche made a ton of them but at the time they were by far the best of the best of the air-cooled despite their weight from all the standard accessories that they came with. They were faster, quicker, more reliable with better braking and handling. I feel that it is just a matter of time that the 3.2 explodes in value because they were a terrific car from the start unlike the mid years.

[77Targa0912]

The rise in prices started late summer of 2013. Price differences between the Impact Bumpers existed then. Now the 74-77 Mid years, 78-83 SC, and 84-89 3.2 Carreras have started to even out in price.

Rusty 74-76 cars are the exception, but there are plenty of solid mid year cars that could use the same love as the SC/3.2. They don't deserve the slandering they receive. They are light, nimble, and have plenty of power with 165/175 hp. Rebuilds aren't as scary as people make them out to be.

[Nick Triesch]

I think the mid years are very cool. But you have to make them a terrific car. The 3.2 was already a terrific car.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I think the mid years are very cool. But you have to make them a terrific car. The 3.2 was already a terrific car.

Have you driven many 74-75 911S cars? They are about 300lbs lighter and have the shorter 7:31 final drive to aid in their acceleration. It's actually the 3.2 that requires some "making" to become a terrific car, IMO. There's a thread somewhere in the Tech forum about how a guy ripped 400lbs out of his car in a weekend. Later cars don't have to weigh that much.

Now that's a performance based opinion. I prefer the fuel injection of my 3.2 to CIS. And my car does have a Wong chip on it. I've got a 915 based 3.2 but if it was a G50 version it would be a "better" car in many peoples' opinions. I see some merit to that argument but peronally love the lighter feel of the 915 gearbox, which has a design basis in racing.

As for the root question? The 3.2s were the first IB cars to run up in prices 2-3 years ago. They spiked first. Middies spiked later, and saw huge price increases last year. That said, I know of about a dozen 3.2s that have traded hands in the $50-60k range in the last six months. These are a mix of 915 and G50 cars. I'm talking really nice condition 3 cars that are being driven, maybe 1 or 2 of them were a 2-. They are still going up and as usual the nicest cars cost the most.

I think in the next year or so what we will see if the best price per performance in IB cars will be to buy a rough or personalized SC. But will we see 3.2s spike again? I personally don't think so.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

They were faster, quicker, more reliable with better braking and handling.

They sound better too than their smaller displacement CIS cousins.

You can't go wrong with the 3.2/G50 combo.

[specialtyoneinc]

They built allot of 3.2's. I don't think they will be the next big thing. Prices have already 2X to 3X in the past 5 years. The rare low mileage collector quality Turbo/M491/Club Sports of course are a different story.

[Nick Triesch]

Matt, you say you don't think the 3.2 cars will spike again?? That is what they said about the 356! I owned a 63 356 B in nice condition. It was the car that the buyers guides way back said was the most undesirable of the 356 cars. There is a really nice example of one here in San Diego at the Sports Car Company for $99,000. I know, I made a mistake.... I think the 3.2 cars will rise again.

[ficke]

The pecking order is always changing. Generally when cars are just considered 'used' then the newest is best, 356C, 3.2 911.
People are just buying a Porsche car and they want they best car.
After awhile the cars become something more something of passion and a time machine of sorts or a historically significant and maybe just aesthetically pleasing, So other considerations start beating out how good of a 'car' it is.

That's when it turns around and the oldest of a model start becoming the one to have, pre A 356, 911 SWB. With that in mind I would say the 3.2 might even fall behind the mid year 911's in desirability.
I think the 3.2 will always be more sought after than a SC. Because of EFI, G-50 and the cars look and feel much the same other than that.

[euro1984]

I am biased but I think you will see ROW 3.2's being worth more and more. In the chain of desirability of coupe 3.2's it will be CS then ROW. Believe it or not it is not easy to find a rust free 3.2 RWO anymore.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

Matt, you say you don't think the 3.2 cars will spike again?? That is what they said about the 356! I owned a 63 356 B in nice condition. It was the car that the buyers guides way back said was the most undesirable of the 356 cars. There is a really nice example of one here in San Diego at the Sports Car Company for $99,000. I know, I made a mistake.... I think the 3.2 cars will rise again.

I didn't say the 3.2 Carreras wouldn't keep going up. I consider a spike a rapid change in price to the positive. I stopped paying close attention to the 356 market 7 years ago when I stopped buying and selling them as part of my job. So I couldn't make a comparison of the steepness of the spike of one versus the other. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see driver 3.2s trading hands for $99k 5 years from now. But to me that's not a spike. They've gone from $20k to $40k in the few years. They will double again, but I think this time it wil take longer until it happens.

We only made a mistake if we want the car back and can't afford it today. I never look at it from the idea that I sold too soon. I sold when I was done with it.

[Nick Triesch]

I guess you are right Matt, I sold the 356 because I wanted more than 75 H.P.

[jeffbottman]

Anyone know ballpark annual production quantities for 3.2s vs early-70s longhoods?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I guess you are right Matt, I sold the 356 because I wanted more than 75 H.P.

To be fair, I don't know that I'm right. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. The fact that I'm willing to share my opinion frequently doesn't make it more important. In truth only time will tell who is right.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

To be fair, I don't know that I'm right. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. The fact that I'm willing to share my opinion frequently doesn't make it more important. In truth only time will tell who is right.

The fact that they put your stuff on racecars and singers does give it a bit of credibility, though

[CountD]

Nick, on a long enough time line everything lends itself to being the next big thing when it's old enough to be. Will a Boxster ever be? Yes - on a long enough time line. Do life events happen that make you sell or get rid of that next big thing before it becomes the next big thing? Absolutely.

With that said, some things become bigger than others. Like a 250 GTO or a 550 Spyder. The rest of the things end up going up if there was an era when it was popular or some sort of poster car. Like a '80s 911 or a Lamborghini. How much who knows.

In the end, who cares if it's the next big thing if you can sustain it and most importantly you like it. Living in fear of inflated prices or not being able to get in is a reality you created in your head - unless, like I said, that thing is a 250 GTO, then maybe the door has closed.

[wm711]

Here is a question for thought. There are two identical Carreras, both with 50000 miles, so the bottom end is fine. One 911 has had a top end and and bottom row studs replaced. In your opinion, how much more would the head work and studs add to the value?

[RoyB]

So I guess I should have taken the offer?

I have a 1987, Targa. 50K miles Totally stock. In near perfect condition. Perfect showroom interior. Runs perfect. Only seen the rain 5 times in its life. A real "survivor"...I bought it in 2000 for $16K

This fall I was followed into a gas station by a guy. We talked for about 30 minutes about the car. He sat in it, reved the engine and then he offered me $50K...CASH!

I love the car and it would take much more than that to buy it (or trade for a same condition BMW 3.0). But since folks don't think they will appreciate more, maybe I should have sold it?

[ficke]

Originally Posted by RoyB

So I guess I should have taken the offer?

I have a 1987, Targa. 50K miles Totally stock. In near perfect condition. Perfect showroom interior. Runs perfect. Only seen the rain 5 times in its life. A real "survivor"...I bought it in 2000 for $16K

This fall I was followed into a gas station by a guy. We talked for about 30 minutes about the car. He sat in it, reved the engine and then he offered me $50K...CASH!

I love the car and it would take much more than that to buy it (or trade for a same condition BMW 3.0). But since folks don't think they will appreciate more, maybe I should have sold it?

No one said they will not appreciate more, what people are debating is if they will appreciate faster or have a "spike" more than the other cars. If they fall than how fast will they fall compared to other cars.
No one is talking absolutes here.
Besides that, one line you say it will take more than that to buy it and then you think you should sell it? for less than you already stated you would not take for it??

[RoyB]

I see where I might have confused you. I bought this car as an investment. Way better than stocks and bonds because you can drive it! But it is an investment. And like all investments you need to sell when you think the investment has peaked. That all I was discussing. Was $50K the top of what I could expect within the next 10 years or so.

Went through the same thing with a 68 Camaro a few years ago. Sold it when I thought it was the top and the same car sold for nearly $60K more a few years later...UGH! But I made a good return on the investment so I guess I shouldn't complain.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by RoyB

I see where I might have confused you. I bought this car as an investment. Way better than stocks and bonds because you can drive it! But it is an investment. And like all investments you need to sell when you think the investment has peaked. That all I was discussing. Was $50K the top of what I could expect within the next 10 years or so.

Went through the same thing with a 68 Camaro a few years ago. Sold it when I thought it was the top and the same car sold for nearly $60K more a few years later...UGH! But I made a good return on the investment so I guess I shouldn't complain.

I would of took the $50k cash and never looked back. That seems to be all the money and some on a 87 Targa unless you truly have a #1/time warp condition vehicle. I don't see the market going up much anytime soon (doubling in 2 years time is pretty impressive).

Keep an eye on the BAT vehicle that is up tomorrow - pretty clean 1988 Targa with 65k miles.