Input/critique on these $25k examples
 

Any input or suggestions of what to look out for these? I'm looking for a driver in the mid to low $20s that I don't need to worry about taking my kid to the mall in and I don't need to worry about mud on the carpets from my shoes.

Really looking for advice on what are the major issues or red flags people see with theses examples.

74 targa
TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1974 911 Targa soft window 2.7

80 wide body
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/918834-fs-1980-911sc-widebody.html

77 S targa
1977 Porsche 911 S Targa(REDUCED!!!)

76 wide body targa
1976 Porsche 911 | eBay

79 wide body targa
1979 Porsche 911 Targa Widebody | eBay

77 S targa



As you can see I do like the sheeper look, so that is not a turn off for me.

Thanks for your help and tips.
Milan

A couple of decent looking cars in that group, at least at first glance.

Go with what YOU like. Don't get swayed by long hood this, or sheeper that. If you like widebodys, go for it(I love them also) It's a car, not an investment, or your 401k. Investment cars are not in the same universe as a $20-$30k driver.

Try to buy as late a model as you can with the most up to date maintenance. Rust is a major deal breaker. Engine work is hideously expensive, as is a trans rebuild, especially if your frame of reference is a domestic like a ford or Chevy. Don't become overly concerned with "originality", because it just doesn't matter at the bottom end of the scale. In that price range you look for decent looking, reliable, and fun.

Also, and probably most important. GO SEE IT IN PERSON. Preferably with someone who has done the work on one of these cars.

Good Advice

BTW, the 77 targa is probably the gem of that group.

The bottom dollar cars at a dealers would be most likely to have biggest issues, and they are going to feed you the most BS.

100% agree - even if you are a mechanic and do the work yourself, the ridiculous "Porsche tax" on even the simplest parts makes any significant work expensive beyond belief, and if you have to take it to a shop (even the independents are going to bend you way over - because they know they can), the costs enter super-rich-guy territory in a hurry.

Probably the main thing that needs to be looked at on any of those cars is leak-down tests, and valve cover removal to check for pulled or broken headstuds (problems here put you into "holy shart" repair cost territory).

Another thing to look for and check when a seller has records, is EXACTLY what has been done. Often, a seller will say things like, "rebuild", when it all that was done was general maintenance. The 77 targa has a pile of receipts, one in the stack is from Competition Engineering, although it is too covered to read. They are a well respected Porsche machining specialist. Would be interesting to see what that receipt says.

If you are in an emissions state a few of those have had modifications that won't allow you to register them without the extra expense of fixing them.

You usually get what you pay for, but a PPI from a good aircooled mechanic will tell you everything. I tried to reach out to the guy who owns the "80 wide body" asking the typical SC questions and never heard back, so I hope you have better luck.

Put cookies on that stock 77 targa and enjoy.

Geez I don't know. 3.2's are the bomb.

x2

Like the black 77 too

you don't say where you are. I won't tell Dmitry, but the value of any of these older 911's IMHO is if you are in a smog state. if yir not in a smog state the testing demarcation line is of less importance if you wanna tune & tweak any. here in CA the 75-good, 76 & newer smog required until further notice.

Sorry, I'm in MD, so I'd put historic tags on it anyway and do anything I want with the motor, etc.

Also, doesn't the 77 have an older 74 block that's only a 2.4? It also looks like it has ****ty respray. Can people tell me what they see there that I'm missing? Is it because the exterior is less molested!

x2

The widebody conversions dont bother me in the least, my car is a widebody conversion. But a widebody conversion brings a whole other set of questions into play that require more information. Like is it steel, or fiberglass? Why was it done? a wreck?

What are you seeing that makes it look a like a bad respray? It is 40 years old, so unless it lived it's entire life indoors, almost anything from the 70's or 80's will have been painted. The jambs looks ok, but as with any car for sale, much can be hidden in pictures. Looks pretty straight on my screen.

If it really has a COMPLETE engine overhaul, done by a reputable shop, (what does the CE invoice in the stack say? ), the motor should be good for a lifetime of a typical enthusiasts use. That is money in the bank, ie something you dont have to worry about biting you in the a$$. Also, anyone that paid for a completely rebuilt motor probably didn't cut too many other corners in maintenance.

Of course all the above is just conjecture that needs to be verified, but it is what I see from the limited info in the ad. Always remember you are buying the seller, not just the car.

Buy the one I have for sale instead for $25,500 - fresh slate gray paint, all steel, stock SC drivetrain. RH 3-piece 18" wheels...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483651976.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483652110.jpg

Is that Drea De Matteo?

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Nice

Did someone say 'moar?'

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483659183.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483659070.jpg

Uhh, yeah, I can't pull that off - my mullet isn't long enough.

Ha.

I was thinking more Crockett & Tubbs. But yeah, you could put Gotti gold center wheels on it and mulletize your hair...

Does the front end of this look out of whack?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483669578.jpg

1974 Porsche 911 | eBay

The fog lights are non original and were put on too low. The chin spoiler is throwing your eye off as well.

For low priced cars, I'd avoid the ones that have been "racer modded"
Maybe a litmus for abuse.

A plus if you're buying from a person, and not a dealer.
Person selling to dealer is leaving money on the table for a quick, no hassle (no questions) sale.

Anything with major engine work scares me without legit documentation.
Is this a valid fear?

The '80 is being sold by a Pelican. Maybe worth a phone call.

'77 seems like potential.

Red '76 seemed ragged, but in a nice way.
Dealer leaving a lot of info omitted, like mileage.

I'm no expert, but none of these seem like total disaster cars.
Just typical "be prepared to spend money to sort them out"
We've all seen many worse cars.

Yes

Unless you know exactly where to look for rust, I wouldn't touch an early car with a 10 ft pole.

Techweenie above seems to have had quite a few cars in the for sale section in the last couple of years, several relatively low priced. Maybe you could reach out to him to get a better feel for what makes a low 20's car, a high 20's car, and a low 30's car. Because it is easy to buy a $25k car that becomes a $35k car, and you may have been better off to buy the $35 k car in the first place.

An example of something to be aware of is his car above is an 82. Convertibles started in 83, so it is probably a converted targa. Not uncommon back in the day, but people shy away from those cars now. But, for a driver car, it would be a blast, and probably is waaaay cheaper than an equivalent ( miles, condition, ) car that was unmodified. I think it looks cool, and is certainly something I would go test drive if I was in the market. I have never had any dealings with him, but on a general note, forum members have history. It is easy to go look up a members past dealings, and someone that is a member for awhile is much more likely to give you the straight scoop on a car than a faceless dealer.

That black 80 sold for 21.5

If it was spring time I would have paid that easily looked good..

I know the rust issue is a challenge and I can't be everywhere to look at cars for people, so I wrote up some notes on how to assess rust here: Blog

Look for the blog dated 070816 and the one dated 071216

...it's a lot of reading, but hopefully useful in making people better at finding rust before buying.

As for the cab conversion, there are no chassis differences between the Targa and cab, so the conversions generally worked out well. The most important thing is to avoid the aftermarket top mechanisms. There was a cheap ($5K) version sold on Hemmings for years that was just steel bar stock. The factory top mechanism is alloy and very well engineered - as you'd expect.

TW-

Thanks for the blog link and the information, very interesting and nothing I had read before.

Regards,
Milan