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Turbines Porsche related? If so, what value?

Sorry everyone. I cleaned them up after, took them around to several tuners here of the rice rockets. No one could decifer them. One person said, as twins at that size it couldn't be anything but GT-R. Another or two people said that they were made from scratch for a certain car and for racing on the circuit. Personally, I googled every number myself, and came up with nothinlg concrete especially for Porsche. Therfore, I rest my case. One thing I forgot, borg warner usually has a number plate with relevant numbers. These don't have that plate. Maybe the are older. I read that before borg warner bought the company it was 3K Schwitzer. It probably dosen't make any difference.
I give up.

Thanks for listening anyway, and sorry.
Bernard

RarlyL8 knows a lot about the KKK turbo. You may try and PM him.

Looks industrial to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 9509148)

RarlyL8 knows a lot about the KKK turbo. You may try and PM him.

Thank you for the lead! I will take some better photos and follow up on that lead.

Many thanks for the help,
Bernard

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattC2993 (Post 9509930)

Looks industrial to me.

I though that at first too. The impellers look industrial for sure. But that could just mean they are old dated designs. The air inlet horn and safety wire look like racing adds. Who knows; maybe these are off of something cool. Worth looking into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 9510562)

Thanks Derrick for the observation. You confirm my haunch that they could be Porsche related. Two days ago I popped in on some my oldest /closest rice rocket tuners. They thought first they might be VG30 or Fairlady z from 1989, but quickly one of the young pros pulled some pix up from the local auction comparing those with what they looked at in the back of my van. Different. So Hakuma san said to me "Porsche chigau?" which means they are off a Porsche aren't they??

I then mentioned that where I got them was a purely foreign car dismantler. Therein, It kind of clicked for me, but if not a Porsche then what?

Pure speculation here, but this same older gentleman had a motor with a top mount cooling fan. I have seen the pictures of it. It was an Andial motor. These turbines couldn't be from that motor could they? As I posted a couple days ago, he kept a manuel with serial number for a complete 962 race car he sold 25 years ago. Pure speculation, but if true, a pattern of keeping pertinant parts while selling the main of rarer cars or components.

Thanks so much for the help Derrick,
Bernard

All turbos have " Industrial" roots.
The turbines are cut back and the compressor inlets suggest restrictors. The turbine housing has a cast code of 1985 which places the pair probably on a Porsche 962 running the 1986 season. If I recall Nissan was sponsoring then and the 962 was so dominate they got the power trimmed so the Nissan could show they could match Porsche and win races. Ha, were are they now?
Used individually they were used as upgrades, probably were to the typical factory unit of their time.
Time moves on and K27 appears to be the drop in upgrade winner and Garrett is the performance winner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by copbait73 (Post 9513302)

Hi copbait73.

I appreciate your insights. You seem to know a lot about turbines. I do not. You said the turbines have a cast code of 1985? How did you come to that conclusion? I am posting better photos just to verify any numbers I may have forgotten. I cleaned them up and took better angles.

I never suggested they came off a 962. In 1986 Nissan was doing nothing as far as I know. Nissan made their day in 1989 at the Bathhurst race in AUS when they won hands down against all competitors with V8 whatever with an inline 6 cylinder 2.6L twin turbo AWD. That was the GT-R Skyline. They won it 3 years in a row hands down until Bathhurst banned twin turbo cars, essentially banning Nissan. I know nothing about Nissan doing anything in 1986, even NISMO the Nissan racing arm. I could be wrong, but I’ve been living here since 1988 and well versed with history on cars here.

One of my foreign car restore specialists here said these days no one here would use a 3K turbo brand. They would go with Mitsubishi or one other local brand I forgot the name of – much more reliable. So in essence, my question is not about who won, but rather do these turbines have some kind of vintage value or are they Porsche related. This still is the trivial question I think.

Thanks for your great insights on turbines. I learned a lot from you,

Bernard
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Bernard- I presented a suggestion of Porsche 962 based on what appears to be a casting date code on the turbine housing.Seeing your location please do not take offense to my next comment which is I would expect that your shops would make that comment regarding turbos however the Japanese were very late comers to turbochargers, their manufacture, applications and especially success in high power applications in endurance races.

My exposure started with being a car guy hanging out at the
Indy track in the late 60s. On to my first boosted engine, a 1600 VW with Judson supercharger in '69, on to employment at Schwitzer (parent to Holset, KKK - now Borg Warner, and Mitsubishi turbos) where in '74 I built my first turbo car a 1600 VW running 20# boost on Sunoco 260 gasoline. My first turboed Porsche 911 was a '69 2.0L in the 1978 timeframe.

Anyway, regarding my guess of origin, see wiki Nissan GTP ZX-T race car program for IMSA GT Championship. Then study IMSA Series history and you will pick-up on the detail there was an ongoing effort to "equalize" competition to maximize the number of manufacturers participation. Porsche being dominate were given repeated burdens until someone else won.

Porsche was really the first to embrace application of turbocharging for performance. They have since dominated wherever they apply themselves. Was, is and probably will continue to be the case. Nissan was one of many who have stepped up with a marketing effort promoting what I call throwaway cars against Porsche, Mazda in all it's sports car forms being another.

I say all this to reinforce the name KKK ( now BorgWarner), KKK being German was always preferred choice, that is just how the Germans do things. Today most privateers and other car makers accept that Garrett ( first AiResearch, now Honeywell) has the
superior technical expertise, product and depth of hardware offerings. Unfortunately I must correct whoever your contacts are that there is nothing coming out of the Japanese manufacture that is innovative, unique and certainly not superior....it's just Japanese and they like that. I get it.

Last thought, I suspect there a hundreds of similar turbos like these so doubt they have any unique historic value. I have a Garrett F1 turbo from the mid 80s and it is a different beast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by copbait73 (Post 9514882)

Thank you copbait73 for the great response and profile on your experience. It is quite facinating to hear. I'm getting an education every time you post.

Moreover, not to worry about talking about the Japanese. I don't mind at all. Truthfully, they are a groupie based culture, and all my contacts over years have different opinions, nor to they concur or communicate with each ther necessarily at all. I am in a rare position to be able to have relationships with all of them as a foreigner i.e. I can be independent and have access to all of them. A Japanese person couldn't do that at all. They are all very tight lipped and each group whether rice rocket or porsche group, difficult to access. I guess just time and relationships over time have allowed me to be in a postion to gain their confidence.

Either way, it is all just feedback. It is interesting to me to get their ideas, some good and some not. Conversely, I like to get feedback from all of you guys in the West based on what they say. It keeps me sane.

Regarding the last people I mentioned (rice rocketeers), they said, sell them seperately on the local auction for 2-300 dollars each. You'll sell them and thats 600bucks my friend said. Mind you I'll have to split that with the friend I got them from.

Perhaps that is the best way to go or do you think? Or, maybe you want to horse trade them for that F1 beast you have in storage? Sounds like a trophy to me. Just kidding now.

Many thanks for your excellent expertise on turbines and the facinating journey you have traveled.

Bernard

Bernard- Thank you, I'm just a retired guy doing my thing of passing the baton. I feel privileged to have been part of the exponential growth of automotive turbocharging. I'm a little saddened that most of my time was spent in U.S. markets that was dominated by heavy duty diesel. My true love was always pass car.

Regarding your turbos, I mentioned at one time your turbos were used as upgrades to the late 60s turbos on 930 TURBO engines however being very old early 70s technology themselves I doubt they will have much demand. At least not here in the states.
The enthusiast market for Porsche turbos is very specific.

I scan eBay and buy modern, used but functional turbos for all makes at $100-$150. You may get that money from a turbo rebuild shop who happens to sell to the diesel market and needs those parts to make replacement units for old diesel equipment.
One last thought, Durabuilt Turbos in Illinois has long been a high quality go to shop for
Porsche specific turbos. It's a long shot but they may have a customer needing those turbos for a race car restoration.