why is it so hard to be a serious buyer?

[juanbenae]

ive just sold a water cooled 911 and am again looking for the next love of my life in an aircooled torsion bar car after the 996tt left me feeling flat & unenthused. what I'm finding is that many sellers both here on pelican & craigslist both seem to be less than interested in sharing anything more than what's contained in the add. prices are crazy to be sure, but it seems like any sort of email outreach with good, solid questions and requests for further pictures on specific areas of the car are hard to come by. sellers seem to be waiting for some uninformed sucker from the ranks of more money than knowledge to land at their garage door with cash.

I try to not come across like some richard in my opening email to sellers, but ask pointed questions, request photos of areas of concern from under the car and portray myself as the informed buyer I am. I seem to get moved to the back burner of ignore. inquiring about specific points on the particular car seem to scare sellers off. I suggest simple photos from under the car w/o it being lifted that I will be able to orientate and crickets.

ive never purchased a car from long distance other than trailering home the turbo I bought in reno last new year. does distance of the interested buyer play such a big roll in seller interest? I feel the pelican network is solid for finding the right PPI opportunities in almost any area I would consider a car from, but lack of seller interest in my cash a$$ money has prevented even a hint of a PPI.

has the informed buyer of these cars gone the way of the doo-doo bird in that we are simply expected to pay the going rate with all vintage Porsche buying rules be tossed out the window? id settle on a woman before the wrong 911 friends...

discuss,

jb

[Skwerl]

The new way to buy aircooleds over the last couple years is to just hurriedly throw money at the seller before the next guy comes in and steals your deal. I've missed a few cars by asking about a PPI - twice, in fact, it sold in hours while I was trying to set that up. Sellers probably just figure extra effort isn't worth it when the hype sells it for them.

[gshiwota]

I've sold a couple of Porsches these past few years and I am probably guilty of ignoring inquiries like yours. Keep in mind the demand for these has been so great that as a seller you get flooded by emails. I'd get dozens of email that vary from the scammy, to long lists of questions and pic requests. You also get the concise emails from what seems like serious buyers that either want to talk or meet to see the car right away. The people that wanted to talk or meet always moved to the front of the line as it implied a greater seriousness in buying the car. The people that asked for a bunch of photos or a ton of questions seemed like too much work as these rarely turned into buyers of my cars. Many "informed buyers" end up requesting an "email-PPI" based upon the myriad of advice they find online and frankly in a hot market there's usually someone more informed that's simply willing to pounce on a realistically priced car.

I've also bought a few of these cars over the past few years. Fortunately, I've wrenched around with these cars for a while and feel comfortable buying a car without a 3rd-party PPI. Frankly with the demand on good cars, I don't see how you could get a PPI scheduled given there's probably always a guy like me that can inspect the car themselves and is willing to buy the car without one. As a seller, I'd much rather sell a car to the guy that doesn't need a PPI as even on a good solid car, the PPI will turn something up.

My advice is to stick to cars that you can see and touch. Don't ask for too many up front questions and sort the cars out in person. The buyers will appreciate it and be more open. If you need have the car inspected, seal the deal first and negotiate the purchase with the PPI as a contingency.

[matt930s]

Good advice^^^^.

MattR

[SalParadise]

Sellers are burned out.

It's hard to sell anything to begin with (if your not a dealer or into it), so most people get bombarded by every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

The best sale for most sellers is a quick (and most hassle-free) sale.

Sellers don't want to be bothered with a PPI. This has been talked about quite a bit on here and I have come to the conclusion that a PPI is often sketchy at best. A lot gets missed. I say rely on your own instincts and buy from someone who knows their car.

Best advice is to have cash in hand, join your local Porsche club and get involved. The best cars almost always get sold without a post. Have the cash, have the OK from your significant other and go from there. In the market of the past 3 years you cannot wait for a seller to arrange a PPI when someone is already there with the cash.

[pu911]

Having sold a air cooled 911 recently let me give you the sellers perspective. I listed car for sale at what I thought was a fair price- received a few offers to purchase car and many requests for more information. I told everybody I would field inquiries in order of receipt, only fair way to handle transaction. First party said he really wanted car but needed a PPI. I said OK but explained that I had offers to purchase above asking price w/o any PPI needed and that he needed to be committed to purchase if PPI was good, he assured me that he was serious. Had PPI done- excellent results, has plugs and plug wires replaced since they were out for leak down. First buyer flakes and now I'm out $1500 for PPI and service work. I'm not sure I'll ever sell another car w/ any contingencies. Market is full of flakey buyers and flakey sellers, tough place to do business. Long distance transactions require a lot of trust between parties, right now way too many scams/games being played.
Phil

[techweenie]

It's the world we live in.

Too many people don't value their commitments. I had 5 people "commit" to buying my Turbo and every one flaked out. (fortunately, I'm now able to keep it)

As a broker/matchmaker, I find people are highly specific about what they want and cannot commit unless every aspect of their 'want' list is met. This is highly improbable with cars that are 30-40 years old. After spending time checking out cars for prospects, I've gotten radio silence on four 'searches' in the past year. Seems the criteria are fluid and the commitment is weak.

So, yeah. Not fun being a seller these days.

And I agree with gshiwota about the people asking for the most pictures - they end up being the least likely to buy.

[75 911s]

Keep it short. Ask for a phone number. Call and be friendly, they will end up telling you everything you need to know.

[Matt Monson]

Keep at it Toby. I think a couple of the cars you've shown me will sit at current asking price. Circle back around with a new polite email in 2-3 weeks and you may get a better response after the flush of interest on a new listing has passed. Many sellers are dreaming and hoping for a quick sale at ask. But as the market has cooled and asking prices have been slow to accept that sellers haven't caught up to reality in many instances.

And hook up with Techweenie. I know what you are looking for and Bill sees many cars in your category.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by techweenie

It's the world we live in.

I find people are highly specific about what they want and cannot commit unless every aspect of their 'want' list is met. This is highly improbable with cars that are 30-40 years old.

Yea, some buyers think they are checking off the boxes like they are ordering a new car. Good luck finding a old one exactly like that. My experience is in most cases their unreasonable expectations ( and / if willing to accept a lesser car ), are usually just a bargaining position from how to get one cheaper 101. Conversely it is also nice to know exactly what a buyer wants, to get the price you want.

[pu911]

My experience is people used to buy cars, now they buy deals. All anyone seems to care about anymore is if they got a good deal, the car is secondary to the transaction.

Phil

[Highway-Star]

Barrage of questions at the beginning is BAD news for seller.

What follows is multiple layers of ever more complex questions, no sale.

Close the deal, inspect what you got when car is in your garage.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

Keep it short. Ask for a phone number. Call and be friendly, they will end up telling you everything you need to know.

This ^

Talking on the phone is key. Too many internet tire kicker/jack offs out there. There plenty of good sellers and cars popping up weekly. Be patient. Best of luck.

BTW. What type of 911 are you looking for?

[ZombieBranz]

I highly recommend using Techweenie as a broker.

He found me a great aircooled LWB 911 a few months back...and he helped negotiate the price down and got them to throw on a new set of Pirelli tires!

His fees are well worth it. He's a straight up guy. worth your time to talk to him if you want an aircooled. There are a lot of good p cars down in Socal and he can drive and inspect them for you. He had decades of knowledge in air cooled Porches.

This is an unsolicited recommendation....I just thought highly enough of Techweenie's services.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Highway-Star

Barrage of questions at the beginning is BAD news for seller.

What follows is multiple layers of ever more complex questions, no sale.

Close the deal, inspect what you got when car is in your garage.

I agree, the people who ask for additional pictures, and then more pictures, and then more questions, never buy the car, in my experience, and I've sold hundreds of Porsches.
If you want to be taken seriously as a buyer don't quibble on price and talk on the phone with the seller, it's a lot harder to side step questions on the phone then over email. Also, if the seller doesn't want to give you his phone number, there is your answer. Anyone who wants thousands of my dollars can slow their roll a little to answer questions on the phone.

---Adam

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

Yea, some buyers think they are checking off the boxes like they are ordering a new car. Good luck finding a old one exactly like that. My experience is in most cases their unreasonable expectations ( and / if willing to accept a lesser car ), are usually just a bargaining position from how to get one cheaper 101. Conversely it is also nice to know exactly what a buyer wants, to get the price you want.

I'm aware of the concessions made on buying a used sports car. my 1st 911 I bought in late 2000, I did not even know it was red until I went to the local seller's house to see it. if I can go look at a car within a reasonable distance I would not request additional photos or burden the seller with email questions. when I consider a car I can not see in person I have to have a few things looked into by PPI. compression leakdown, has it been wrecked, and if so how badly, condition of paint & interior, rust and does it leak like a sieve from the motor or gearbox, and if from the motor can the source be identified. that's it.

I buy design do not discuss or mention price because as a seller before seeing or having a PPI it's a waste of time, and irritating for a seller. understood. I have driven 140 each way recently to look at a turd not advertised as such. dude would not send pictures of the motor and it was an exxon valdez..

what am I looking for? would consider an early 915 Carrera, any older than a 75 due to California smog exemption. an early SC that the state at some point might find in their hearts to exempt from smog the 78-80 models? I do not expect any 3.2 to ever be smog exempt, so an SC is desirable in that regard. would consider the right project, really no interested in something I can't touch. I wanna build a sporting 911. basically my old SC just before I ripped the carpet, cut the sunroof out, had a cage built and went broke racing it...

I will reach out to TW to see what he might help me with. thanks for the heads up.

t

[juanbenae]

one other thing. the buyer of my 996tt said I helped make the buying experience very comforting to him. so much so he passed on a car he liked a bit more, was a few thousand $$ more money but was comfortable enough with the buying process he went with my car. he lived 60 miles away or so , but made two trips to see and drive the car. for his second visit I went so far as jacking the car up so he could see all he was considering prior to a PPI. I suggested a couple local shops, he did his interviews & homework prior to me delivering the car to the shop while he traveled on business.

we both felt good about the deal, he's thrilled with the car, I got what I needed price wise that was not discussed a bit until after the PPI results were in. i just aspire to getting that kind of deal and the car i want.

t

[NYNick]

Buyer beware. These are old cars that can have a lot wrong with them. While everyone understands a buyers search for knowledge, it's a sellers market and has been for years.
Not every seller is as honest and forthright as you were with your TT.

The anonymity of the internet just exacerbates the problem and allows tire kickers to waste peoples time without leaving their living room chair. Anyone who has tried to sell a car on the WWW knows the pain and exasperation this can entail.

All of the cars I have bought and sold entailed either physical inspections or long, friendly, detailed telephone conversations resulting in a long distance inspection. These cars are so desirable that it's just more difficult to buy long distance, and easier for the seller to sell locally.

You should probably contact TW. You guys are in the same state, and he has a great rep.

Good luck.

[Puma]

Around 2001 I went hunting for an early 911. I had cash in my pocket. I was just out of college and no seller took me seriously, I felt like it was because I was so young. I'd see an ad, call 'em up and drive out there to see it. A complete waste of my time, every time. I gave up after about five cars thinking there's something wrong with these 911 sellers. Maybe they were used to older, better dressed guys, I'm not sure. Time wasting is a two way street.

[Farrell]

Originally Posted by Puma

Around 2001 I went hunting for an early 911. I had cash in my pocket. I was just out of college and no seller took me seriously, I felt like it was because I was so young. I'd see an ad, call 'em up and drive out there to see it. A complete waste of my time, every time. I gave up after about five cars thinking there's something wrong with these 911 sellers. Maybe they were used to older, better dressed guys, I'm not sure. Time wasting is a two way street.

Im young, always have cash in my pocket and have striked many deals with old Porsche men. If you have money in your pocket and a car is for sale, i don't know how each of you can't strike a deal?

Porsches are not like Alcohol, theres no age limit to buy. As long as you have money you can buy, shoot you can buy one when your 4 years old... Just can't drive it, legally.