Euro 3.2 price premium

[_Remi]

Hi,

I am on the market to replace my beloved 3.2 targa and I stumbled upon a euro 3.2 for sale. I understand the differences (my dad drives a euro, I was driving a us) but I would like to get your opinion on the potential price difference - if any.

Would you pay more for a euro 3.2? How much more?

Off topic: I sold my 3.2 a few weeks before my daughter was born and she's will be turning 5 soon, it's not easy getting back on the right track

Thanks!

[darrin]

Personally would view a grey market federalized 3.2 as a minor detriment - given the shortcuts and kludges some importers implemented - would also be concerned with ca emissions/registration/red tape, especially if buying out of state

That said, I do prefer the looks of the euro buperettes and Bosch h4s over their us counterparts

[_Remi]

Originally Posted by darrin

Personally would view a grey market federalized 3.2 as a minor detriment - given the shortcuts and kludges some importers implemented - would also be concerned with ca emissions/registration/red tape, especially if buying out of state

Never looked at it from that perpective, thanks. I will keep that in mind if it ever goes to PPI.

That said, I do prefer the looks of the euro buperettes and Bosch h4s over their us counterparts

Ironically enough, the one I am looking at has been converted to US headlights . It would be the first thing to go of course!

[darrin]

this has a lot of good stats (assuming they're accurate) re hp for US and other markets -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911#Carrera_3.2_.281984.E2.80.931989.29

looks like the key difference engine-wise is higher comp pistons for the euro -- 10.3:1 (9.5:1 for the US market), which resulted in slightly higher hp -- 231 bhp vs 207 bhp (and US Spec 911s built from October 1986 produce 217 bhp through chip programming changes). There might also be gearing differences?

Chipping an earlier us spec engine can get it at/above the later us spec hp. Further, since many 911s need (or have had) top end rebuilds to fix excessive oil consumption issues, it's easy to "hotrod" any of these engines during rebuild to be significantly faster then their stock euro counterparts. (favorite seems to be - bore cylinders to 3.4l and run single plug "max moritz" style pistons and with slightly hotter cams and matching/tuned chip for a noticeable bump).

fwiw and good luck!

[porschenut]

All other things being equal, Euro cars have always had lower values than US cars, for the reasons Darrin stated above.

[LUFTKUL]

All things being equal, I would pay a little more for a Euro car. I certainly did. Especially one that was imported to US the year it was made, I can call the guy who imported it because his name is still on the import sticker, and its never left my town.

More HP, arguably better gear ratios, euro turn signals/side markers, and smaller rear impact bumpers. All pluses in my book.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by porschenut

All other things being equal, Euro cars have always had lower values than US cars, for the reasons Darrin stated above.

I don't think they were generally good reasons. The dealerships started spreading it and people bought in. They were 911S and often 930S. The people trying to get them registered weren't trashing these cars.

[christiandk]

I have had both - it is hard to believe that it is basically the same engine. The euro is MUCH faster or at least it feels that way. I actually felt that the my US SC was faster than my US 3.2.

Yes, I would pay more for a euro (ROW). How much? Are the two identicsl cars for sale? Probsbly not, but around 10-15% I guess.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by christiandk

I have had both - it is hard to believe that it is basically the same engine. The euro is MUCH faster or at least it feels that way. I actually felt that the my US SC was faster than my US 3.2.

Yes, I would pay more for a euro (ROW). How much? Are the two identicsl cars for sale? Probsbly not, but around 10-15% I guess.

before I started buying 930's I owned a us 3.0 and a us spec 3.2 (M491).

the 3.2 was far stronger than the 3.0. not even close.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by Ferraripete

before I started buying 930's I owned a us 3.0 and a us spec 3.2 (M491).

the 3.2 was far stronger than the 3.0. not even close.

Well, mine wasn't.

Maybe the euro 3.2 is to the US what the US Is to the US SC(82).

[ficke]

Euro cars are better in many ways, besides the engine and gear ratios the big bumpers on the US 74 and later cars, the stupid 85MPH speedo on some of the us cars, etc.
And the Euro 911/930's were cheaper, so I bought them, better and less money. Win win.
Not so much now and some people even pay more for Euro's. But there are still a lot of people who believe they should still sell for less. This thread shows both beliefs.
Things are always changing.

[SalParadise]

I've driven many Euro 911s - both before/after a correct EPA/DOT conversion.

In the 'spunk' category, there is little to no difference feel wise between a US car vs. a Euro car - unless you really know how to drive a 911 and you are able to eek out every last hp (ie. in day-to-day driving, you will not notice anything).

As someone pointed out, the possible conversion itself may be suspect. Half the time, they were not converted or 'Federalized' or whatever you want to call it at all. The following would have been done if it was done correctly:

1) Speedo replaced with MPH
2) UNLEADED gasoline sticker added to dash
3) Seatbelts and/or seatbelt buzzer added (DOT compliant ones)
4) Bumpers were left alone
5) Door bars added (so many conversion houses just added wooden broom sticks for photos - and then took them out - don't ask how I know).
6) Ride height may or may not be adjusted (but you guys know how to do that).
7) DOT compliant tires (if not on there already)
8) Headlights changed.
9) Side markers on the front fenders in amber added (sometimes)
10) CAT added on through US type exhaust (some Euro cars came with cats, others not)
11) VIN added to correct DOT area on front windshield
12) VIN sticker added to the drivers door jamb
13) Airpumps added if it had one on the US model

The only thing I would worry about is shoddy door reinforcement work.

And to answer your question, would I pay any more for a Euro 3.2? Never.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

1) Speedo replaced with MPH
2) UNLEADED gasoline sticker added to dash
3) Seatbelts and/or seatbelt buzzer added (DOT compliant ones)
4) Bumpers were left alone
5) Door bars added (so many conversion houses just added wooden broom sticks for photos - and then took them out - don't ask how I know).
6) Ride height may or may not be adjusted (but you guys know how to do that).
7) DOT compliant tires (if not on there already)
8) Headlights changed.
9) Side markers on the front fenders in amber added (sometimes)
10) CAT added on through US type exhaust (some Euro cars came with cats, others not)
11) VIN added to correct DOT area on front windshield
12) VIN sticker added to the drivers door jamb
13) Airpumps added if it had one on the US model

.

Of course many Euro cars have not had any of this done and all Euro cars over 25 years old can be imported into the US with out any of this. So as long as the myth remains that all Euro cars are like this, Bargains can still be had in the Euro cars.
Look for those listed modifications, if not there, then treat it like it is a better than US car if all else is equal Rust, miles, etc..
Resale might be more difficult because of this perception of Fed. mods. So understand this going in.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

I've driven many Euro 911s - both before/after a correct EPA/DOT conversion.

In the 'spunk' category, there is little to no difference feel wise between a US car vs. a Euro car - unless you really know how to drive a 911 and you are able to eek out every last hp (ie. in day-to-day driving, you will not notice anything).

I dont think that you have driven an Euro 3.2. Unless you are deaf and dump you will notice the difference - completely different cars.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

Neither of them have a rear booster, so they both suck anyway!!!

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

Neither of them have a rear booster, so they both suck anyway!!!

Ahhh, he is back - nice!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by christiandk

Ahhh, he is back - nice!

All the best to my bestest, Danish Dangler, Chris!