Wasn't this a crazy good deal?

Rick Brooklyn · 03:48 AM

Like I said in the comments, I'd expect any MFI car which doesn't have holes in the floorpans and runs under its own power to trade well into the thirties. No?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-912e-2/

ficke · ficke's Garage

No,
Crazy good deal for what?
To make money? You now go through the 'part out business', big hassle and the price is reflective of that.
To have a 911? well it is not a 911 it is a 912 on the title so there will always be a 'story' with this car. It will be fun but will sell with that story.
To have a MFI 911 engine? well MFI is a hassle and is great fun for racy performance applications and is worth it if you have a performance engine, a T motor is not that. So now you have a hard starting, expensive parts, fuel injection system that will not pass emissions easily on a low HP/rpm engine.

So no, this was not a car that slipped thorough the crack and was snatched up buy a lucky buyer. It was sold for market correct price at a well observed auction.

nathanbs · nathanbs's Garage

People stay away from these Frankenstein monsters for the most part unless they are extremely well built.

SalParadise · 09-13-2017, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbs

People stay away from these Frankenstein monsters for the most part unless they are extremely well built.

Very true. What's going to happen here? I see an engine and rollling tub. Probably worth what was paid.

pmax · pmax's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Like I said in the comments, I'd expect any MFI car which doesn't have holes in the floorpans and runs under its own power to trade well into the thirties. No?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-912e-2/

Rick, Rick,
That's not an MFI car.

specialtyoneinc · 09-13-2017, 08:39 AM

If it had a 72 E or S engine I would say "yes" to a crazy good deal. Feel like this was fair market value.

Rick Brooklyn · 09-13-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmax

Rick, Rick,
That's not an MFI car.

Well, it has an MFI on it! I'm all for purity, but this looked like a good basis for a nice hotrod to me. I guess I was wrong

ficke · ficke's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmax

Rick, Rick,
That's not an MFI car.

Yes it was. It defiantly is a MFI 911 engine.

pmax · pmax's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficke

Yes it was. It defiantly is a MFI 911 engine.

No it wasn't, as far as the marketplace is concerned.

Rick is correct in the sense that if this were a running and solid MFI car, it was a good deal.

Matt Monson · 09-13-2017, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Well, it has an MFI on it! I'm all for purity, but this looked like a good basis for a nice hotrod to me. I guess I was wrong

It's a great place to start for a hot rod, but it wasn't a crazy good deal.

racer · 09-13-2017, 01:15 PM

Might have been worth more if maintained as an original 912E. An MFI "T" is only what, 140hp? so its still slow

Patrick3000 · 09-13-2017, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer

Might have been worth more if maintained as an original 912E.

X2 worth more as a stock 912E

blau911 · 08:18 PM

Just to add a little counterpoint to this conversation, some have commented above that a 2,4T with MFI is in Ficke's words, "To have a MFI 911 engine? well MFI is a hassle and is great fun for racy performance applications and is worth it if you have a performance engine, a T motor is not that. So now you have a hard starting, expensive parts, fuel injection system that will not pass emissions easily on a low HP/rpm engine".
2,4T with MFI is no more difficult or complicated than a 2,4E or 2,4S Motor. Besides the porting and cam grind on the top end of the motor itself, and the slightly larger intakes on the MFI the throttle bodies (which can be easily enlarged to make any E, S or RS specification desired), and a different space cam, a 2.4T is essentially the same as a 2,4E or 2,4S motor. Bottom line, any 2,4T MFI set-up with some pretty minor modifications, can be fitted to any 2,2-2,4-2,7RS motors.
Ficke also states that 2,4T MFI is known for hard starting, expensive replacement parts, etc. That's because of the very limited number of parts available. This is not just for the 2,4T MFI motors. MFI parts from any 2,2-2,4 T, E, S motor are very valuable. So how is it bad to have a complete and properly running 2,4T MFI motor? The reality is that guys with missing MFI set-ups on their otherwise highly valuable 2,2-2,4 E and S cars will be banging on your door to buy your parts for top $$$ if you ever decide to swap out for carb's. That doesn't seem like a problem to me?

The primary advantage of the MFI system is the great throttle response. A 2,4T with MFI gives the same throttle response feel as on the E or S. The only difference is that the power is on the lower end of the rev curve. I have driven plenty of 2,4T cars with Weber carb's, Zeniths, CIS, and MFI, and the MFI even on the 2,4T is the funnest and most responsive.

The hot start problems, and expensive parts/repair issue applies to all MFI cars - not just the 2,4T engines. A good, well serviced MFI engine that has been tuned by a wrench that knows what he is doing, is a superior motor and a pleasure to drive. That is why they are so sought after...

So if 2,4T MFI is such a disappointment and a PITA, feel free to sell yours in the parts section. I may be a buyer ;-)

ficke · ficke's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by blau911

Just to add a little counterpoint to this conversation, some have commented above that a 2,4T with MFI is in Ficke's words, "To have a MFI 911 engine? well MFI is a hassle and is great fun for racy performance applications and is worth it if you have a performance engine, a T motor is not that. So now you have a hard starting, expensive parts, fuel injection system that will not pass emissions easily on a low HP/rpm engine".
2,4T with MFI is no more difficult or complicated than a 2,4E or 2,4S Motor. Besides the porting and cam grind on the top end of the motor itself, and the slightly larger intakes on the MFI the throttle bodies (which can be easily enlarged to make any E, S or RS specification desired), and a different space cam, a 2.4T is essentially the same as a 2,4E or 2,4S motor. Bottom line, any 2,4T MFI set-up with some pretty minor modifications, can be fitted to any 2,2-2,4-2,7RS motors.
Ficke also states that 2,4T MFI is known for hard starting, expensive replacement parts, etc. That's because of the very limited number of parts available. This is not just for the 2,4T MFI motors. MFI parts from any 2,2-2,4 T, E, S motor are very valuable. So how is it bad to have a complete and properly running 2,4T MFI motor? The reality is that guys with missing MFI set-ups on their otherwise highly valuable 2,2-2,4 E and S cars will be banging on your door to buy your parts for top $$$ if you ever decide to swap out for carb's. That doesn't seem like a problem to me?

The primary advantage of the MFI system is the great throttle response. A 2,4T with MFI gives the same throttle response feel as on the E or S. The only difference is that the power is on the lower end of the rev curve. I have driven plenty of 2,4T cars with Weber carb's, Zeniths, CIS, and MFI, and the MFI even on the 2,4T is the funnest and most responsive.

The hot start problems, and expensive parts/repair issue applies to all MFI cars - not just the 2,4T engines. A good, well serviced MFI engine that has been tuned by a wrench that knows what he is doing, is a superior motor and a pleasure to drive. That is why they are so sought after...

So if 2,4T MFI is such a disappointment and a PITA, feel free to sell yours in the parts section. I may be a buyer ;-)

I am not going to 'point to point' argue with you because I agree with what you wrote, but you missed entirely the point I was making and the reason for this thread.
I will try to clarify for you, this thread is about a specific car, a 912E, that has been modified and the question is what is the value of it?
I answered that question with my first reply. I was not addressing the MFI system value to people that own MFI cars and/or the desirability of that system. I was addressing the OP's question, this 912E's value with a stock 911TMFI engine.
A 912E is not A MFI car, as PMAX correctly pointed out, even if it has a MFI engine.
So the value, and the desirability of that system on that car is not the same as it would be on a MFI car.
The car in question is a hot rod, and as a hot rod it would be better served and more valuable with a less expensive, more powerful engine.
A MFI T motor is not the least expensive most powerful engine, as you so skillfully pointed out, essential agreeing and supporting my point. So thanks for that

But a poor engine choice for a hot rod, this car, and this enigne does not make it a valuable MFI car so you missed that by a mile

I would guess this car was converted years ago when these MFI T engines were not sought after and it was a inexpensive option. but times have changed.

Matt Monson · 09-26-2017, 06:53 AM

A dozen years ago there was an old 2.4T engine with mfi sitting in the back of the shop. I walked by it and the $1750 price tag for years. I wanted to put it in my 914 but had no money. How I wish I owned that lowly T today... I agree with both Ficke and Blau. Not a crazy good deal but a good start to a hot rod.