Next iconic collector car Alfa Spider and GTV?

[bh912e]

I know its a bit off topic but since 911 prices have risen so high I thought this was an interesting discussion.

Chris Harris recently drove a Alfa GTA built by Alfaholics which had a rebuild much like a Singer Porsche. I must say I loved it!

Buying a GTV or an early metal bumper Spider and doing a Singer like treatment would definitely be cool.....

I don't think there has been another car which like the 911 kept its original body style for over 3 decades, other than the Alfa Spider..... It also has one sweet 4 cylinder engine.... looks great with side drafts...

[MrBonus]

A GTV is definitely my next toy. Prices have been steadily rising lately and I fear they will soon be unobtanium.

[NYNick]

Don't ignore the GTV-6. Not to everybody's taste style wise but my lord, what an engine.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Don't ignore the GTV-6. Not to everybody's taste style wise but my lord, what an engine.

Yes, I had a buddy in highschool that had a GTV-6, it smoked many, many cars back in the day on Super 7 in Connecticut. He used to drag the thing until the timing belts let go.

Any early Alfas really rust before your eyes. I worked at a shop in Arizona and the two head mechanics drove '60s Guilia Supers. They were awesome and better in than BMW 2002. Anyways, even in Arizona, in the desert, Alfas from this era rust. I'm serious. Be careful and do a full inspection. GTV is a neat car though. An old non-galvanized 911 is enough for me in my life right now.

[Alfasrule]

OK I can pipe in on this one!
GTV's are very cool but over priced, had one But I'm a 116 guy.
Get an Alfetta BEWARE of RUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got 2, and have 2 GTV-6's
Fetta's are betta!!! GTV-6's are nice as well, but my 2 Fetta's can out handle them on Vermont Roads. Milanos as well are another option. I only got 2 105's my 82 Spider(best year) and me Pumpkin.
the 105's are nimble and very responsive, but the 116's are smooth and comfortable to drive.

Don't know how a 944 type car handles, never driven one, but the DION setup in the 116's is awesome.

[Nick Triesch]

I owned a Alfa Spider years ago. Had a ping so I decided to tune it. Distributor was at the bottom of the motor near the ground. ,Had to uses extensions and it was very hard to see being so far down. Then the valve adjustment!!!Took a set of shims to adjust the valves. Then the mechanical fuel injection! A rotting, oozing mechanical nightmare car. I sold it and bought a 356 and owned it for 10 trouble free years. And cake to tune up and a way better built car. There is a reason these cars left America.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Alfasrule

OK I can pipe in on this one!
GTV's are very cool but over priced, had one But I'm a 116 guy.
Get an Alfetta BEWARE of RUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got 2, and have 2 GTV-6's
Fetta's are betta!!! GTV-6's are nice as well, but my 2 Fetta's can out handle them on Vermont Roads. Milanos as well are another option. I only got 2 105's my 82 Spider(best year) and me Pumpkin.
the 105's are nimble and very responsive, but the 116's are smooth and comfortable to drive.

Don't know how a 944 type car handles, never driven one, but the DION setup in the 116's is awesome.

How do the 105s compare to driving a 911?

[Ayles]

Noticing them creep into a lot of social media latley for some reason.

[Catorce]

Love the GTV, never owned one.

[trader220]

The boat sailed on the GTV. You could have bought everyone on the planet for 20 grand a few years ago. Now the really good ones are in the 40's, 50's and 60's. A nice solid driver is in the 30's.

Look at Bring a Trailer and go back through the alfa auctions. You'll see that dozens of 105 coupes have sold on BaT and the prices are pretty high.

[Otter74]

I remember reading an issue of R&T when I was in high school that had an article titled something like "the best used sports cars for $10k or less). This would have been in about the early 90s. 911SCs were on the list, and so were GTVs. It's been a loooong time since you could get a nice GTV for that little money.

[misterwaterfall]

Thanks, now I'm looking at these and wanting to buy one. Looks like some cool hot rodded versions in the 30's. Seems like a fun car for the price

[Alfasrule]

Never driven a 911 as well. Been in one.

[panzerfaust]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

How do the 105s compare to driving a 911?

i had 3 105 alfas... still have a 69 gtv today in which ive owned for about 25yrs.

i used to have a 930 and now a M491 that is slowly becoming a more focus track car.

my 69 is slightly mod street mod, lowered, 160hp, 205-14, suspension work, no brake boosters.

the alfa feels a lot lighter, turn in is sharper than the porsche and can get real tail happy which u can use to toss it around. u can rotated to your advantage since the grip and traction is much lower in the rear than a 911.

same geometry issues if you slam the front end in which the roll center drop subterranean. much more complicated on the double arms than just to raise the spindles on a strut. I have hubs that were band in vintage racing. "drop spindles" is what old alfa guys call them drop rather than raised spindles here on pelican since they drop the car body closer to the ground. you can tell who was cheating in the paddocks since you can see the lower arm parallel to the ground peering out of the front valance.

it moves around alot on the track so you can play with the slip angles really easy. it will spin like a top with a stiff rear bar. I ended up down sizing to stock rear bar and removing it all together years ago before it was fashionable to do so now. funny that "fast road" alfaholics spring rates are the same as the ones i custom spec'd out 15 years ago with christian at ebiach who is now doing 911 bars.

brakes are good for a 40-50yr old car but not as good as 911 especially with the 930 brakes (no other car of the vintage comes close to 930 binders imo). 69 gtv in the usa are wonderfully unique that they made only a handful for one year, twin boosters, floor pedals,spica MFI pump, idle circuit, flying buttress seats, bumpers, lamps and a ton of other details that sets it apart from the earlier and later cars. i removed the twin boosters and for manual brakes.


the motor architecture is ancient. classic hemi head combustion chambers similar to the 911 but even taller with more volume. they can be high flow for decent peak power with huge valves but are slow burning and timing sensitive. street driveablity falls off a cliff if you port them too much or over carb and cam them.

like the 911, early motors are smaller in displacement, sweeter running and rev nicer. But the later longer stroke motors of a 1800 or 2000 have much more punch. all the presmog 105 to some extend came with ITB's in weber, dellortos or spica MFI from the factory. they sound wonderful and are stunning to look at with nearly everything in casted alloy even the oil filter as in my 69. if there is a leak, you can see it immediately because engine accessibility is great. I could never see my 930 motor under all those hoses and plumbing.

gearbox there is no comparisons. alfa box is much nicer shifting and smoother. not a quick box but positive in feel,shifting in 915's are terrible. some folks cut down on the long throw buy using a remote shifter base. like the 911 there are plethora short gear ratios to mix and match.

LSD pumpkins will make the car handle drastically differently in tight corners. they are usually worn out now and not all cars came with them.

both cars have a upright windshield and tiny pillars so visibility is great and adds to unique driving experience. imo the styling is just as striking as the early 911's. you can outlaw them too with gr2 gta flares or gtam flares and tiny 10x13 campys.

i have a couple spare motors in the wings and twinspark to boot. one of these days i may find the time to build a TS up.

my 2 cents
pf

[DaBears]

I had a 1974 2000 GTV until last summer. I loved driving it - was a blast. Parts availability, prices, and performance upgrades are extremely reasonable out of Classic Alfa in the UK. The SPICA fuel injection is awesome BTW contrary to those that advise a Weber DCOE swap. But....it's a REALLY small car to drive in Chicago traffic. With values rising I ended up selling it on BaT and came out very well. I do miss it.

[Nader]

I have a couple of '69 Spiders. One is a street car with a carbed 2L (instead of stock 1750cc), and one is a fully developed race car I mostly built (including sliding block rear axle). I don't have much to add to panzerfaust's words, I fully concur. I can, however, add a self-promotional picture .

Here I am in the winner's circle at Road America, for having won the Kimberly Cup (slower cars with small displacement) a couple weeks ago. Second place was my buddy's '78 Spider (and third was a Porsche 914). So yeah, Alfas are great for racing. That 911 also pictured won the Sheldon Cup for faster cars. An IMSA Mustang won the Elkhart Cup. That's Vic Elford up there about to present me with my prize, an engraved bottle of wine.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Don't ignore the GTV-6. Not to everybody's taste style wise but my lord, what an engine.

I have owned three in my day. I always just loved them!!!

[Ferraripete]

My cousin is currently doing a full nut/bolt resto on a 73 FTC. She will be a stunner and bring all the money. The right car will be $100k soon.

[Nader]

My two Spiders.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by panzerfaust

i had 3 105 alfas... still have a 69 gtv today in which ive owned for about 25yrs.

i used to have a 930 and now a M491 that is slowly becoming a more focus track car.

my 69 is slightly mod street mod, lowered, 160hp, 205-14, suspension work, no brake boosters.

the alfa feels a lot lighter, turn in is sharper than the porsche and can get real tail happy which u can use to toss it around. u can rotated to your advantage since the grip and traction is much lower in the rear than a 911.

same geometry issues if you slam the front end in which the roll center drop subterranean. much more complicated on the double arms than just to raise the spindles on a strut. I have hubs that were band in vintage racing. "drop spindles" is what old alfa guys call them drop rather than raised spindles here on pelican since they drop the car body closer to the ground. you can tell who was cheating in the paddocks since you can see the lower arm parallel to the ground peering out of the front valance.

it moves around alot on the track so you can play with the slip angles really easy. it will spin like a top with a stiff rear bar. I ended up down sizing to stock rear bar and removing it all together years ago before it was fashionable to do so now. funny that "fast road" alfaholics spring rates are the same as the ones i custom spec'd out 15 years ago with christian at ebiach who is now doing 911 bars.

brakes are good for a 40-50yr old car but not as good as 911 especially with the 930 brakes (no other car of the vintage comes close to 930 binders imo). 69 gtv in the usa are wonderfully unique that they made only a handful for one year, twin boosters, floor pedals,spica MFI pump, idle circuit, flying buttress seats, bumpers, lamps and a ton of other details that sets it apart from the earlier and later cars. i removed the twin boosters and for manual brakes.


the motor architecture is ancient. classic hemi head combustion chambers similar to the 911 but even taller with more volume. they can be high flow for decent peak power with huge valves but are slow burning and timing sensitive. street driveablity falls off a cliff if you port them too much or over carb and cam them.

like the 911, early motors are smaller in displacement, sweeter running and rev nicer. But the later longer stroke motors of a 1800 or 2000 have much more punch. all the presmog 105 to some extend came with ITB's in weber, dellortos or spica MFI from the factory. they sound wonderful and are stunning to look at with nearly everything in casted alloy even the oil filter as in my 69. if there is a leak, you can see it immediately because engine accessibility is great. I could never see my 930 motor under all those hoses and plumbing.

gearbox there is no comparisons. alfa box is much nicer shifting and smoother. not a quick box but positive in feel,shifting in 915's are terrible. some folks cut down on the long throw buy using a remote shifter base. like the 911 there are plethora short gear ratios to mix and match.

LSD pumpkins will make the car handle drastically differently in tight corners. they are usually worn out now and not all cars came with them.

both cars have a upright windshield and tiny pillars so visibility is great and adds to unique driving experience. imo the styling is just as striking as the early 911's. you can outlaw them too with gr2 gta flares or gtam flares and tiny 10x13 campys.

i have a couple spare motors in the wings and twinspark to boot. one of these days i may find the time to build a TS up.

my 2 cents
pf

Thank you for this extremely thoughtful, thorough summary. It really paints the picture I was looking for.