Experience with Danish seller Palle Christensen, Classic Import, Rödding, Denmark

[H-viken]

Hi,

In the spring of 2015 I took delivery of, what was supposed to be, a fully restored Porsche 911 rolling chassis from Palle Christensen, Classic Import, in Rödding (engine and gearbox were not included in the sale).

This is Palle's own description of the car (translated from Danish);

QUOTE
The car has been repaired of all rust
New complete floor
Completely new front
The car will be delivered painted slate grey ( orig. color ) (Johan's comment: The car was originally brown from the factory)
I want to add that the car is in very good condition
Should anything be cosmetically defect it will be replaced with either new or used.
UNQUOTE

Before taking delivery I had the car inspected by a reputable restorer, working only on Porsches.

With the car in my own garage I started preparing it for installation of the engine and gearbox. While doing this I found areas that looked suspicious and notified Palle. No response....

Safe to say the engine and gearbox were never installed.

Shortly afterwards I was asked by the company I work for to go abroad for 2 years. So, the car was brought to a high level body shop with the instruction to start stripping the bottom when they had spare time. The cleaning was finished a few weeks ago. As the "body" (rubber coating) started to come off it revealed damage, rust, and poor workmanship, which had been purposely hidden under the body, some of them which pose a safety hazard. For example the right rear fender, parcel shelf, and backseat, need to be removed and replaced i order to properly take care of the rust.

Attached you will find just a few of the pictures taken after the bottom was cleaned.

I wrote to Palle, including almost 20 pictures pictures, giving him two options;
1. To take the car back and refund all my money, plus compensation for my outlays.
2. To compensate me financially.

In Palle's defense he offered to repair the car, but not to compensate me for any outlays, nor to pick up and deliver back the car back. Either way, I have no interest in his offer as Palle had the opportunity to do it right the first time.

Instead I have decided to move forward on my own, with a body shop I trust.

Best regards,

Johan

[john walker's workshop]

When the ad says new floor pans and all the rust repaired, there's your clue that the car was a rust bucket. So you bought a fixed up rust bucket unfortunately.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

When the ad says new floor pans and all the rust repaired, there's your clue that the car was a rust bucket. So you bought a fixed up rust bucket unfortunately.

Which would be fine if they did a proper job. Never count on anyone doing a proper job however as it’s a needle in a haystack these days

[Matt Monson]

Looks like $53k to fix.

[SalParadise]

This kind of deal seems to be the theme of the week around here.

1) It is up to the buyer to inspect the car before purchasing.
2) It is up to the buyer to do his research, and at least lay eyes on the car (if he is not available, then someone he trusts).
3) In some ways, too bad, so sad. Not to be an *********, but not everything in this life is what it seems.
4) Don't believe what what anyone says until it is verified (to your standards). Pure and simple.
5) See number #4 again.

Sorry, but in this life I have come to realize that so many people have so many different standards, it is nearly impossible to figure anything out by words alone.

Some believe that suffering is important in this life. However, you can usually negate this if you educate yourself and actually take a hands-on approach to this hobby.

[bpu699]

Those repairs don't look that bad? Not concours, no perfect, but not a complete hack job either... welds could be nicer...

I guess its all a question of what you were promised and what you paid. Different price points have different expectations...

Good luck...

[H-viken]

The damages were well hidden under fresh body and some carefully applied filler. So the guy inspecting the car for me did not see it, neither did I at the time of delivery. What we saw was in line with what I was paying for; not concourse but a nicely restored body, free from rust and damages.

Just spoke to the body shop this morning and they finished cleaning the last little part in the engine bay. Result; new parcel shelf and rear seats needed. Frustrating!

It's definitively a learning experience and a life lesson!

[Unobtanium-inc]

You should have left the undercoating on, if you liked the car before that. The car is not rusty, so had you left the undercoating on it would have lasted 1000 years. Rule of thumb, don't go looking for trouble, you might find it.

You now have a car that you liked that makes you angry. Maybe I'm being sentimental about cars but I like to like my cars so I don't need to see every dark corner.

---Adam

[1979-930]

Bummer. It's not that bad to me unless you paid top dollar for a concourse car.
Cars that are restored buy sellers and dealers will rarely be repaired correctly. They need to cut corners to make a profit.

[Matt Monson]

I’m reminded of the sale of my 68T. I had reason to believe it was hit at some point because it was repainted into an RS rep early in its life. A well known vintage dealer bought and inspected it on behalf of a CA client. Neither of us saw much of anything wrong with the tub. We were so mistaken. Once the paint and undercoat were off there was major metal work “needed” to fix the original repairs to the car.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

You should have left the undercoating on, if you liked the car before that. The car is not rusty, so had you left the undercoating on it would have lasted 1000 years. Rule of thumb, don't go looking for trouble, you might find it.

You now have a car that you liked that makes you angry. Maybe I'm being sentimental about cars but I like to like my cars so I don't need to see every dark corner.

---Adam

This is very true. Words of wisdom right here.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by H-viken

Good evening Scandinavian readers,

In the spring of 2015 I took delivery of, what was supposed to be, a fully restored Porsche 911 rolling chassis from Palle Christensen, Classic Import, in Rödding (engine and gearbox were not included in the sale).

This is Palle's own description of the car (translated from Danish);

QUOTE
The car has been repaired of all rust
New complete floor
Completely new front
The car will be delivered painted slate grey ( orig. color ) (Johan's comment: The car was originally brown from the factory)
I want to add that the car is in very good condition
Should anything be cosmetically defect it will be replaced with either new or used.
UNQUOTE

Before taking delivery I had the car inspected by a reputable restorer, working only on Porsches.

With the car in my own garage I started preparing it for installation of the engine and gearbox. While doing this I found areas that looked suspicious and notified Palle. No response....

Safe to say the engine and gearbox were never installed.

Shortly afterwards I was asked by the company I work for to go abroad for 2 years. So, the car was brought to a high level body shop with the instruction to start stripping the bottom when they had spare time. The cleaning was finished a few weeks ago. As the "body" (rubber coating) started to come off it revealed a lot of damage, rust, and poor workmanship, which had been purposely hidden under the body, some of them which pose a safety hazard. For example the right rear fender needs to be removed and replaced i order to properly fix the rust hole in the wheel well.

Attached you will find just a few of the pictures taken after the bottom was cleaned.

I wrote to Palle, including almost 20 pictures pictures, giving him two options;
1. To take the car back and refund all my money, plus compensation for my outlays.
2. To compensate me financially.

In Palle's defense he offered to repair the car, but not to compensate me for any outlays, nor to pick up and deliver back the car back. Either way, I have no interest in his offer as Palle had the opportunity to do it right the first time.

Instead I have decided to move forward on my own, with a body shop I trust.

Best regards,

Johan

https://www.bilbasen.dk/find-en-forhandler/bilforhandler-classic-import-id10692

Where are you from Johan?

Why do you bring up a 2 year old buy now?

[H-viken]

Christian, I'm from Sweden. How come you ask?

As I wrote in the original post I went to work abroad for a few years and it was only recently that the bottom was fully cleaned and this discovered. Including the need for a new parcel shelf and back seat, since they were rusted out.

I'm actually still very much looking forward to getting the car back on the road after it has been cleaned up. In that sense I'm not bitter and nothing has been "ruined".

What I'm bitter about are alll the damages being deliberately covered up. If I was compensated to the point where I ended up paying for what I actually received then all would be square. Doesn't look like this will happen so the best I can do is share my experience and move forward on my own.

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

You should have left the undercoating on, if you liked the car before that. The car is not rusty, so had you left the undercoating on it would have lasted 1000 years. Rule of thumb, don't go looking for trouble, you might find it.

You now have a car that you liked that makes you angry. Maybe I'm being sentimental about cars but I like to like my cars so I don't need to see every dark corner.

---Adam

I still like the car and I'm sure I'll be very happy with it once I have it back on the road

Johan

[Alan A]

You said you had it inspected by a reputable restorer before purchase.
I assume they didn't find problems.

Yet despite this you start besmirching the seller because they didn't disclose problems. The same problems your restorer couldn't seem to find in a ppi.

You have either 1. Proof they knew about the pre restored condition or 2. Different laws covering defamatory comments one hopes.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by H-viken

Christian, I'm from Sweden. How come you ask?

As I wrote in the original post I went to work abroad for a few years and it was only recently that the bottom was fully cleaned and this discovered. Including the need for a new parcel shelf and back seat, since they were rusted out.

I'm actually still very much looking forward to getting the car back on the road after it has been cleaned up. In that sense I'm not bitter and nothing has been "ruined".

What I'm bitter about is the seller deliberately covering this up, pawning it off as something it is not. If he compensated me to the point where I ended up paying for what I actually received then all would be square. Doesn't look like this will happen so the best I can do is share my experience and move forward on my own.

Just thought that it would be odd for an American to import a tub from Denmark.

But you being from Sweden it makes sense.

Im a Danish lawyer and I can assure you that you have no case after waiting 2 years to contact the seller no matter what the contract says. If the seller wants to help, fine. If not move on.

Cheers,

Christian

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by Alan A

You said you had it inspected by a reputable restorer before purchase.
I assume they didn't find problems.

Yet despite this you start besmirching the seller because they didn't disclose problems. The same problems your restorer couldn't seem to find in a ppi.

You have either 1. Proof they knew about the pre restored condition or 2. Different laws covering defamatory comments one hopes.

Correct, it could not be seen under the freshly applied body, the new paint job, the new carpet kit, and the new engine pad. All applied by the seller. It would be hard to miss, for example a “Swiss cheese” parcel shelf and backseat, doing this work.

The PPI did reveal some minor issues but these were in line with the price I paid.

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by christiandk

Just thought that it would be odd for an American to import a tub from Denmark.

But you being from Sweden it makes sense.

Im a Danish lawyer and I can assure you that you have no case after waiting 2 years to contact the seller no matter what the contract says. If the seller wants to help, fine. If not move on.

Cheers,

Christian

Thanks Christian for the advise, much appreciated. I have come to the same conclusion and have instructed the body shop to move forward.

Cheers!

Johan

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by pmax

Johan,
The pics above are post repair by your body shop, correct ?

I think folks here missed that,

I thoght the pics are from the sellers repairs, after coating removed?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

Hmm, I don’t see the rust issues as claimed by Johan in the pics.

And you’re an expert.