912E Prices...

[Fly911]

Again, I have seen a 912E for sale for 911 money... Today there is one for sale on this forum for $27k. There is also a (high mileage) 1988 911 Carrera for sale for $21k. If you have a less than $30k budget for an air cooled Porsche, which one would you buy? No brainer, if you ask me...
The 1976 912E was basically a stripped down 911 with a 90 Hp (Din) Volkswagen engine. It was slower than both the 914 and the original 912. Unless you are converting it to a six cylinder, the 912E is the least attractive air cooled Porsche. I know that the car was only produced in 2099 examples, but that relative rarity doesn't compensate for its shortcomings.
Are the sellers of these cars delusional, or am I missing something here?

[ficke]

All good points.
But maintenance and upkeep is important when choosing a car, and if you are on a 30K budget you really need to consider it. The 912E engine is about as inexpensive of a transmission in put shaft twister that you can have for a Porsche. With a few cheap light mods and power is not so bad either. A high mileage 911 could be the start of a very expensive lesson on buying a cheap car is not always the lest expensive.
The other thing is condition, You mentioned the 911 option is high mileage, How is the interior and paint compared to the two cars? No it is not as clear cut or simple as it might seem when comparing cars.

[NYNick]

The 912E, and the original 912, were made for people who would not spend the money on a 911, or would not accept the 911 as the next new thing. Oh ok, maybe gas mileage entered into the equation on the 912E, but that was just another marketing ploy.

I've owned 2 912's. Awesome little cars. Corner like the devil. Great gas mileage. Same body as the 911...light and roomy. Really a lot of fun.

But the 911 is the pinnacle of Porsche success and design. If you have one, you're a lucky man. You know what a true sports car is, and how it can handle. Drive the hell out of it. You're driving an automotive legend.

Then you can buy a 912 as a stable mate, for fun.

There are 2 reasons to buy a 912. 1) You already own a 911. 2) You can't afford a 911.
That's it.

[Ferrariguyma]

If I to chose only 1 car to keep it would be my "E"

[matt930s]

Bravo on your comment Ficke...my 67 912 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it (Ive owned mulltiple 911's, 930/S, 928 etc).

Sometimes the simplicity is the value. Have you looked at the prices of old VW buses lately?

MattR

Originally Posted by ficke

All good points.
But maintenance and upkeep is important when choosing a car, and if you are on a 30K budget you really need to consider it. The 912E engine is about as inexpensive of a transmission in put shaft twister that you can have for a Porsche. With a few cheap light mods and power is not so bad either. A high mileage 911 could be the start of a very expensive lesson on buying a cheap car is not always the lest expensive.
The other thing is condition, You mentioned the 911 option is high mileage, How is the interior and paint compared to the two cars? No it is not as clear cut or simple as it might seem when comparing cars.

[pmax]

All good comments. However, I would add that p-car mechanics charge the same rates whether you have a 911 or a 912/912E so unless you do everything yourself, the 912/E isn't any cheaper to own. The 912E is also a one year only special so good luck finding some of the parts.

And worst of all, they sound like a VW bus but we already know that !

[CountD]

A 912 is not a 911.
A 911 is not a 912.
A 912E is not a 912.
A 912E is not a 911.
A 912 is a 912.
A 912E is a 912E.
A 911 is a 911.
Nothing is a 911 but a 911.
He who pays for a 912 should not expect a 911.
And he who purchases a 911 will be happy he did not purchase a 912.

- Ancient Chinese Proverb

[ficke]

Originally Posted by CountD

A 912 is not a 911.
A 911 is not a 912.
A 912E is not a 912.
A 912E is not a 911.
A 912 is a 912.
A 912E is a 912E.
A 911 is a 911.
Nothing is a 911 but a 911.
He who pays for a 912 should not expect a 911.
And he who purchases a 911 will be happy he did not purchase a 912.

- Ancient Chinese Proverb

I think your Chinese is not so good, this is how a read the old proverb

I you want a 911 you will not be happy with a 912.
If you want a 912 you will not be happy with a 911

Nothing is a 911 but a 911 likewise nothing is a 912 but a 912

He who pays for a 911 and expects 912E maintenance cost will be sorely disappointed.
He who buys a 912E and expects 911 power will be sorely disappointed.

[Ferrariguyma]

120hp with custom CTR SS exhaust and headers puts it at 74-77 911 performance
and sounds better

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by matt930s

Sometimes the similicity is the value.
MattR

No doubt about that right thar, Phat - new 912 crate engines are very affordable!

[ficke]

Originally Posted by pmax

All good comments. However, I would add that p-car mechanics charge the same rates whether you have a 911 or a 912/912E so unless you do everything yourself, the 912/E isn't any cheaper to own. The 912E is also a one year only special so good luck finding some of the parts.

And worst of all, they sound like a VW bus but we already know that !

??? are you really that clueless???
Please educate yourself a little maybe before you post. Price engine parts right here on pelican, it is not that hard to do, before you offer up that bit of advice.
And try to understand that the time it takes to do work on a push rod four cylinder engine is going to be a lot less than the time to do the same work on a over head cam, dry sump, six cylinder engine. Even if you are paid the same, it takes less time= less money.
Think valve adjustment on the 912E where there are only two valve covers to remove and no nuts holding them down as oppose to 4 v.c. on the 911 with a pile of nuts to take off.
How about an oil change, 4 quarts on the 912 vs. 12 or more on the 911.
and on and on, the 911 engine is just way more complicated than a 912E/VW engine.

It is OK to be brand new in this hobby but you seem to know just enough to think you know, which is not helpful to people who are really trying to get real information and not opinions from the clueless.
Yes you are right about the 912E and the 911 having the same chassis so that is the same fun and cost, but the engine? where most people dump their money, and what differentiates the 912E from a 911, cost the same??? Come on. really?

[pmax]

Originally Posted by ficke

And try to understand that the time it takes to do work on a push rod four cylinder engine is going to be a lot less than the time to do the same work on a over head cam, dry sump, six cylinder engine. Even if you are paid the same, it takes less time= less money.
Think valve adjustment on the 912E where there are only two valve covers to remove and no nuts holding them down as oppose to 4 v.c. on the 911 with a pile of nuts to take off.
How about an oil change, 4 quarts on the 912 vs. 12 or more on the 911.
and on and on, the 911 engine is just way more complicated than a 912E/VW engine.

Until you need a hard to find part or bust your 912E engine and find there are no replacements available at a reasonable price. That Raby engine that Ferrariguy mentioned, perhaps he would like to share with us how much it costs.

How much are 356/912 rebuilds these days ?

Please be realistic about costs.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by pmax

However, I would add that p-car mechanics charge the same rates whether you have a 911 or a 912/912E so unless you do everything yourself, the 912/E isn't any cheaper to own.

Max, as much as I bust on 912s in genearal, I've gotta say that your cost of ownership analysis is way off, bro - 912s are much easier to work on and far less expensive to troubleshoot, repair, etc. (am referring to engine, fuel and ignition systems, butt the same probably applies to most of the car).

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

All good comments. However, I would add that p-car mechanics charge the same rates whether you have a 911 or a 912/912E so unless you do everything yourself, the 912/E isn't any cheaper to own. The 912E is also a one year only special so good luck finding some of the parts.

It's a 75 911 chassis with a 914 engine in it. There are only a small smattering of parts that are truly specific to the 912E. And my buddy, Bris will tell you that we can build a really nice little hot rod engine on that VW based engine for way way less than a 911 engine.

[ficke]

PMAX, I am feeling giving today so I will hold your hand and walk you throw some basic facts. Take that hand I am holding and count it, yes that is one hand, that is how many camshafts the 912 has. Now hold both your hands out and count them, that's right you should have two hands, that is how many camshafts the 911 engine has.
So if you had to replace this on your engine guess what will cost more? that's right two camshafts cost more than one.

Now let's go to pistons and Cylinders a basic components of an average rebuild and we can get hard #'s right here on Pelican parts
for the 912E P&C's cost $359.25
1976 Porsche 912 E Coupe - Pistons and Cylinders - Page 1
the 1988 911 P&C's cost $3289.50
1976 Porsche 912 E Coupe - Pistons and Cylinders - Page 1

We can go on, but I think you should be able to get it, if this is not clear enough of and example then there is nothing more I can really do.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Max, as much as I bust on 912s in genearal, I've gotta say that your cost of ownership analysis is way off, bro - 912s are much easier to work on and far less expensive to troubleshoot, repair, etc. (am referring to engine, fuel and ignition systems, butt the same probably applies to most of the car).

912 engines being the same as the 356s will share the same ownership costs.

Anyone gotten a quote on a rebuild lately ?

[ficke]

Originally Posted by pmax

912 engines being the same as the 356s will share the same ownership costs.

Anyone gotten a quote on a rebuild lately ?

The car in question and what the OP first post was about is a 1976 912E, a totally different car than the earlier 912's. if you want to change up the question to fit your answer you are just stubborn to knowledge gain.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by ficke

We can go on, but I think you should be able to get it, if this is not clear enough of and example then there is nothing more I can really do.

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

You focus on pennies saved on oil changes but not the costs of unobtanium parts and labor rates.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

912 engines being the same as the 356s will share the same ownership costs.

Anyone gotten a quote on a rebuild lately ?

912E, not 912. It's a 914 type IV engine. VW bus engine. Cheap and plentiful engine. Only thing unique on it is the version of fuel injection and that's easily changed carbs or 914 injection.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by pmax

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

You focus on pennies saved on oil changes but not the costs of unobtanium parts and labor rates.

Try real hard to read, my post 15 and understand that $3289.50 is a larger number than $359.25 if you can not comprehend that