I would really appreciate your opinions on this car....

[vintage_mpg]

Yet another thread about a new-to-me 996.1.........this will be my first P-car.

I can pick up a local (well, 75 miles away) 2000 C2 Cab, tiptronic car.

Here's what I know of the car:

I have seen it and driven it. Nice car, but not flawless. Starts/runs/drives as it should.

Factory rebuilt engine - but with NO paperwork. At all. Engine number confirms that it's a rebuilt engine. I'm assuming that this was to rectify the IMS situation - but again, no paperwork.

Clear CarFax. Currently owned by the 4th owner. The car currently has right around 51k miles - but it's unknown how many of those miles are on the new/rebuilt engine.

Has a healthy scratch on the passenger door that has been covered with touch-up paint, console is worn pretty good. Leather seats refinished in factory leather, and appears well done.

Continental tires with only 4k miles on them, even wear all the way around. Shift buttons on the steering wheel, but no paddles. The usual goodies like climate control and power seats, otherwise a base model car.

Is this a good buy at $18k?

I'd love to know what you all think -

Honestly, I loved the car. AND the seller. However, the ZERO documentation has me a little concerned about when it's MY turn to sell the car. It seems crazy to have NOTHING on an engine swap. Nothing at all. My problem is that there are no other P-cars in my neighborhood, so it's a bit of a lone wolf in my world. Not a ton of cars for sale currently in western Colorado. The seller is an older gentleman who has put less than 5000 miles on the car during his three years of ownership. Engine was installed prior to his purchase.

The price seems on the low side of market value - but I'm no expert. That's why I'm here!

Is this a decent buy? Or too many unknowns for a 996.1?

Talk to me! You guys are the seasoned pros here.....

[bigel]

Hello Vintage,

I presume the engine swap was done prior to the current owner's tenure...is that right? Otherwise, I would share your deep concern with the lack of documentation for what would certainly be a significant event if I were the owner.

If you're deeply in lust with the idea of buying this car, why not pay for a PPI at an independent shop?

Good luck in any case.

Steve

Originally Posted by vintage_mpg

Yet another thread about a new-to-me 996.1.........this will be my first P-car.

I can pick up a local (well, 75 miles away) 2000 C2 Cab, tiptronic car.

Here's what I know of the car:

I have seen it and driven it. Nice car, but not flawless. Starts/runs/drives as it should.

Factory rebuilt engine - but with NO paperwork. At all. Engine number confirms that it's a rebuilt engine. I'm assuming that this was to rectify the IMS situation - but again, no paperwork.

Clear CarFax. Currently owned by the 4th owner. The car currently has right around 51k miles - but it's unknown how many of those miles are on the new/rebuilt engine.

Has a healthy scratch on the passenger door that has been covered with touch-up paint, console is worn pretty good. Leather seats refinished in factory leather, and appears well done.

Continental tires with only 4k miles on them, even wear all the way around. Shift buttons on the steering wheel, but no paddles. The usual goodies like climate control and power seats, otherwise a base model car.

Is this a good buy at $18k?

I'd love to know what you all think -

Honestly, I loved the car. AND the seller. However, the ZERO documentation has me a little concerned about when it's MY turn to sell the car. It seems crazy to have NOTHING on an engine swap. Nothing at all. My problem is that there are no other P-cars in my neighborhood, so it's a bit of a lone wolf in my world. Not a ton of cars for sale currently in western Colorado. The seller is an older gentleman who has put less than 5000 miles on the car during his three years of ownership. Engine was installed prior to his purchase.

The price seems on the low side of market value - but I'm no expert. That's why I'm here!

Is this a decent buy? Or too many unknowns for a 996.1?

Talk to me! You guys are the seasoned pros here.....

[tonythetarga]

If the engine number has an “AT” as part of the serial number, then it is a factory replacement engine. That also means that it has the larger non-serviceable IMS bearing. That is a positive. The larger bearings, while not being replaceable without tearing the motor apart, have a very low failure rate, particularly when the car is just driven normally and not tracked vigorously.
If the odometer shows 51,000 miles, that means fewer than those miles are currently on the engine.
PCNA should be able to tell you where the car was originally sold from. I would research the dealer for warranty replacement engine paperwork.
If everything else look good on the car, I think you should go for it.

[tonythetarga]

If you go ahead and buy the car, then with no history, it just means you have to be prepared to go through the car and replace fluids, etc. Oil, brake fluid flush, coolant etc., things that would be done at the 60,000 mile service. Transmission fluid too I would expect. Then you have a baseline established of when things were done at what mileage.
You’ll also need to look at ball joints, tie rod ends, drop links, and axle boots. Run your finger along the rotors. If there is a lip at the top that is significant, then you’re probably looking at rotors and pads as well. If you are a DIY type, then some of these projects can be undertaken and save you lots of money.
The only way to establish a history, is the baseline the car at the time that you purchase and keep records going forward. Just because there’s no records shouldn’t be a stop sign to the purchase. The one caveat with the 3.4 L engines is that cooling is critical. These cars do not like to be overheated as they have a tendency to crack a head. If it does not have a center radiator, I would suggest you spend the money and put one in at the time that you service the water pump and coolant and thermostat. Probably the best money you can spend on the car.

[vintage_mpg]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

If you go ahead and buy the car, then with no history, it just means you have to be prepared to go through the car and replace fluids, etc. Oil, brake fluid flush, coolant etc., things that would be done at the 60,000 mile service. Transmission fluid too I would expect. Then you have a baseline established of when things were done at what mileage.
You’ll also need to look at ball joints, tie rod ends, drop links, and axle boots. Run your finger along the rotors. If there is a lip at the top that is significant, then you’re probably looking at rotors and pads as well. If you are a DIY type, then some of these projects can be undertaken and save you lots of money.
The only way to establish a history, is the baseline the car at the time that you purchase and keep records going forward. Just because there’s no records shouldn’t be a stop sign to the purchase. The one caveat with the 3.4 L engines is that cooling is critical. These cars do not like to be overheated as they have a tendency to crack a head. If it does not have a center radiator, I would suggest you spend the money and put one in at the time that you service the water pump and coolant and thermostat. Probably the best money you can spend on the car.

I love this idea. This is definitely what this car needs: a baseline,.

I'm just reluctant to be the one to start the baseline process, simply based on the fact that there's been no recorded service for over 8 years. All the major services are due, as is some sort of IMS inspection or replacement. I have a feeling it's going to be quite the expense, getting this car back on track.

I could do a good bit of the service myself, but there are obviously a few things that I wouldn't feel comfortable tackling myself.

Still on the fence about this one.....

[vintage_mpg]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

If the engine number has an “AT” as part of the serial number, then it is a factory replacement engine. That also means that it has the larger non-serviceable IMS bearing. That is a positive. The larger bearings, while not being replaceable without tearing the motor apart, have a very low failure rate, particularly when the car is just driven normally and not tracked vigorously.
If the odometer shows 51,000 miles, that means fewer than those miles are currently on the engine.
PCNA should be able to tell you where the car was originally sold from. I would research the dealer for warranty replacement engine paperwork.
If everything else look good on the car, I think you should go for it.

I'm glad that you brought this up; when I spoke with a Porsche service tech yesterday he said the AT simply means a factory Porsche replacement engine. Nothing more, nothing less. He said it could easily be a new engine that was on the shelf - but might have the original poor IMS bearing. It might have the newer, larger, non-serviceable bearing as well, but he said there's no way to guarantee it. He said there's a good chance it's got the newer-style bearing, but he also said it's an awfully risky bet to make, without any sort of documentation.

At the dealership he served, he said the IMS replacement service starts at $8000 and goes up from there. EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS. That's almost 50% of the purchase price! Holy smokes! He thought it was an incredibly risky assumption to think it's been addressed. Even though I think it likely has been addressed, he confirmed that simply because it's an AT engine, that doesn't necessarily mean it. Again - he said it's a roll of the dice.

He was a service tech at the dealership where the car was sold new - but he had ZERO paperwork on either an engine replacement OR on the IMS for this car. Nothing. So frustrating; somebody spent a boatload on a replacement engine, but with no documentation it's a giant question mark. One that might turn into an expensive lesson or a great deal. Could go either way.

I'm going to see if the seller won't give me a bit more room on the purchase price. Also, I've got a chance to have a PPI done - even though it won't be a "yank the tranny and take a peek at the IMS" level of inspection. That should also give me some good info on a starting place for this car.

[vintage_mpg]

Ugh.

I bailed on this one. Just too many open-ended variables, some with expensive consequences.

The search goes on!

I wasn't in love with the Cab OR the tip, so maybe it's for the best.

[KNS]

If you're looking for a manual coupe - don't settle! You'll regret it later.

[bigel]

This^^^