Which choice ? LN/ Guardian/ Solution ?

[wtbzanzibar911]

First came the LN upgrade
Then The Guardian to let you know
if you needed the LN
and now TheSolution ?
If the LN works , Why TheSolution ?
Please don't point me to ( old Links)
Thanks for your replys

[JFP in PA]

Different solutions to a common problem. The LN IMS update (ceramic hybrid replacement IMS bearing) was designed to be a correction for the failure prone OEM sealed steel bearing. Works well, but is a "maintenance item" that needs to be replaced periodically.

Guardian is a warning system to alert owners to a serious pending failure like the IMS. Cheaper and easier to install, can be used as an interim solution on a lower mileage car, or a leased car, until a clutch replacement is required, which is the optimal time to do an IMS/RMS update as they will be exposed as part of the clutch job. The Guardian is also the only real option for the 2005-2008 cars with the OEM oversized IMS, which still can fail, but cannot be updated without totally disassembling the engine.

The “Solution” is a permanent fix for the IMS problem, but only on the single row IMS bearing engines.

[Uwon]

Hey guys,
I just contacted Charles at LN to ask him when and if they were coming out with a permanent solution (I.e. oil pressure feed for the IMS bearing) for the 2006-08 and his reply was that they "will eventually offer an IMS solution for the MY06-08 engines, but not for a while, maybe next year". Looks like pulling the bearing seal facing the flywheel and installing a Guardian Jnr. are still the only form of preventive action at this time, albeit temporary.
I wonder how hard it would be to make up a similar oil pressure fed system....I sure would like to try something.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Uwon

Hey guys,
I just contacted Charles at LN to ask him when and if they were coming out with a permanent solution (I.e. oil pressure feed for the IMS bearing) for the 2006-08 and his reply was that they "will eventually offer an IMS solution for the MY06-08 engines, but not for a while, maybe next year". Looks like pulling the bearing seal facing the flywheel and installing a Guardian Jnr. are still the only form of preventive action at this time, albeit temporary.
I wonder how hard it would be to make up a similar oil pressure fed system....I sure would like to try something.

Problem is that you will still have to disassemble the engine to install it......

[Halm]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Problem is that you will still have to disassemble the engine to install it......

What would be your guess'timate (no feet held to the fire) to do this on an otherwise healthy engine? Also forget any potential "while your in there. . . " options that will obviously come up.

Thanks!

[NOTASIX]

I wonder how hard it would be to make up a similar oil pressure fed system....I sure would like to try something.

Just hope that you have several disposable engines, a few years worth of extra time and your own machine shop.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Halm

What would be your guess'timate (no feet held to the fire) to do this on an otherwise healthy engine? Also forget any potential "while your in there. . . " options that will obviously come up.

Thanks!

Because of the way these engines go together, you cannot do it that way; the engine will require totally disassembly and a complete rebuild is the only real option, as pistons have to be removed from the bores, etc.

[Halm]

JFP, Thanks.

Did not realize that. WOW! So in essence, one would add the cost of the Solution to that of a rebuild. Probably an unrealistic "mod" to do for the car.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Halm

JFP, Thanks.

Did not realize that. WOW! So in essence, one would add the cost of the Solution to that of a rebuild. Probably an unrealistic "mod" to do for the car.

One of the big problems with the 2005-2008 M96/97 engine is that may as well throw in the “while you were in there” upgrades if you are going to do the IMS as you will already be spending one heap of cash just to do the IMS, and you really don't want to be doing this twice................

[Halm]

So, in your opinion, is the Guardian (as well as oil analysis and checking the filter every oil change) the only reasonable protection an owner of an '05 -'08 M96/97 motor has?

[JFP in PA]

Unfortunately, that is about it, along with being careful about the oil you run.

[NOTASIX]

We disassemble M97 engines, swap the larger bearing for an IMS Solution bushing and put it all back together again for 8,500.00 parts and labor.

Its a full teardown, which we can do blindfolded. Just another day at the office here.

[Uwon]

Jake and JFP, I was obviously under the mistaken impression that the IMS Solution was a bolt on affair that ran an oil line from the oil filter to the IMS cover. Thank you for clearing this up.
Jake, would you care to weigh in on the suggestion to remove the IMS bearing seal facing flywheel.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Uwon

Jake and JFP, I was obviously under the mistaken impression that the IMS Solution was a bolt on affair that ran an oil line from the oil filter to the IMS cover. Thank you for clearing this up.
Jake, would you care to weigh in on the suggestion to remove the IMS bearing seal facing flywheel.

It is for a early M96 single row cars, but not so much for the 06-08 model years (M97) you asked about.

[NOTASIX]

No, you were correct.. But the solution also omits the ball bearing completely.

The issue is there is no way to remove your larger M97 bearing with the engine assembled. If your engine was 01-05 the Solution would be a bolt in.

We have a method of retrofitting the M97 bearings with the engine assembled and the procedure is part of our parent, but it is very medieval and uncouth.

[wtbzanzibar911]

Can we get back to the original question
LN bearing or Guardian or
Solution ?

[NOTASIX]

Originally Posted by wtbzanzibar911

Can we get back to the original question
LN bearing or Guardian or
Solution ?

Its a generational situation more than anything. Here is an overview

-

If your car is a 97-2000 you only have three choices:

1- Do nothing, say your prayers and play Russian roulette with each twist of the key. This could cost nothing if you are lucky, or could cost 20K if you are unlucky.

2-Employ the IMS Guardian system, this will cost 400.00 if you do it yourself, or 6-800.00 if a shop does the work (do it yourself!!!)

3- Apply the standard "classic" IMS Retrofit procedure of your choice, some are better than others, but any of them are better than nothing.

If your car is a 97-2000 the IMS Solution is NOT a possibility for you. The values of these cars has dropped so much that the market for the Solution just isn't there with it's elevated costs.

If your car is an 01-2005 (early 2005) you only have four choices:

- All 3 listed above plus the addition of the IMS Solution.

The 01-early 2005 models are BY FAR the WORST in regard to bearing failures. The single row, early diameter bearing used in these is too small to carry the loads- period. These cars are the ones that the IMS Solution provides the most sense for, since it is easier to install and omits the ball bearing completely. The part that isn't there simply cannot fail; the IMS Solution omits ELEVEN wear components from the engine.

If your car is a late 2005-2008 you only have FOUR choices:

- Do nothing

- Employ the IMS Guardian Jr system. This is a universal "Engine Guardian" that is cheaper than the standard IMS Guardian but allows integration with any vehicle dash. Its not as clean to install and doesn't look factory, but it does provide audible and visual alarms in case of foreign object debris generation. (LN Engineering will have these in stock in 2 weeks, they are now the exclusive sellers of all IMSG systems. (Cost around 250.00 for the kit and please carry this out as a DIY, don't pay a shop for this work!)

- Send the car to us to disassemble the engine, upgrade a few things and employ the IMS Solution with a special unit we have produced. The issue with the late cars is the factory IMS Bearing is too large to remove through the access port in the case without cutting the bearing apart. Cutting a bearing apart inside an engine is medieval, uncouth and only for those that haven't built enough engines to know whats stupid or not.

We have an IMS adaptor that we can install into a disassembled M97 engine that fits the single row IMS Solution to it. This allows the IMS Solution bushing to be pulled at a later date if you ever wanted to do so and this can be done without engine disassembly.
This cost 8,500.00 all inclusive and NO ONE else can do the work at this cost; because no one else in this country is proficient enough with these engines to carry this work out in a timely manner. We can do this work in less than one week once the vehicle is scheduled in.

- Wait at least a year for us to finish the testing of the IMS Solution for the M97 that will be a retrofit. This may never come to pass just because the challenge of removing the OEM bearing without creating more damage than its worth. Don't count on us offering this, because it would be above the heads of most any reasonable shop to carry out these days and it is simply too risky.

[Uwon]

Jake, Thank-you for your clear response. Would you care to comment of removing the outside bearing seal on MY 06-08 motors as an interim measure?

[NOTASIX]

Originally Posted by Uwon

Jake, Thank-you for your clear response. Would you care to comment of removing the outside bearing seal on MY 06-08 motors as an interim measure?

Its better than nothing.

[Halm]

Jake, I have a crate 3.4 ltr. motor built in December, 2005. Would I be correct in assuming I am in your "late 2005 - 2008" category as listed above?