LN Engineering Intermediate Shaft Bearing failure

[jlionberger]

I just had my 60k mile service completed and replaced the Intermediate Shaft Bearing with the LN Engineering IMS replacement. The shop I go to specializes on exotics and has worked on my Porsche, Lotus and Lambo for years. The IMS bearing lasted just under 400 miles before it failed. The failure caused the timing to jump with them resulting valve and engine damage. LN claims the shops did not install it correctly and only replaces the bearing. I can't imagine the shop installed it incorrectly. It obviously was an early-hour failure due to a manufacturing defect. I see LN has a new design. I'm now waiting for my shop to find an engine while LN refuses to admit their product could have failed. I read the warranty and understand they only warrant the IMS bearing but be real. I'm an engineer and race car driver. I know mechanic and manufacturing failures. Step up and stand by your product.

[herman maire]

Yikes!! You should post this over on Rennlist.com in the 996 forum.
That forum is much more active.

If the bearing is not damaged, its more than likely a error in the install. I sent a PM, let me know.

[intakexhaust]

Thats quite an opening post sir. I view those private individuals and companies (including those mentioned) a great service. Afterall, they are trying to resolve a well known failure by Porsche, a company that touts perfection but has largely weaseled its way out of the defect. For being an engineer and a racer, you should know millions are spent on F1 components and they sometimes fail. If you haven't yet, take a few days and read the volumes of the IMS failure on these forums. Rough to point blame but however it works out, hoping the best for you.

[KNS]

Flat Six Engineering, the guys that helped develop the new IMS bearing with LN, has decided that with the new "Solution" to the IMS (supposed to be better than what you had installed) will not intitially let shops other than themselves install the new bearing. They apparently have had several independent shops install their bearing incorrectly with the results that you've encountered.

Not saying you didn't get a bad bearing - anything is possible. But for Flat Six to keep it in-house, it sounds like there is a quality control (installation-wise) issue out there with some of the shops around the country.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jlionberger

I just had my 60k mile service completed and replaced the Intermediate Shaft Bearing with the LN Engineering IMS replacement. The shop I go to specializes on exotics and has worked on my Porsche, Lotus and Lambo for years. The IMS bearing lasted just under 400 miles before it failed. The failure caused the timing to jump with them resulting valve and engine damage. LN claims the shops did not install it correctly and only replaces the bearing. I can't imagine the shop installed it incorrectly. It obviously was an early-hour failure due to a manufacturing defect. I see LN has a new design. I'm now waiting for my shop to find an engine while LN refuses to admit their product could have failed. I read the warranty and understand they only warrant the IMS bearing but be real. I'm an engineer and race car driver. I know mechanic and manufacturing failures. Step up and stand by your product.

First of all, there are many very successful upgrade installs running round out there, literally numbering in the thousands. LN has openly stated that there have been a limited number (less than a dozen total out of thousands installed) failures of the ceramic replacement bearing. Most of the ones that failed were single row (2000-2004) cars that failed for one of two reasons: Something else in the engine crapped out and filled the bearing with debris, killing it; or the bearing was not improperly installed. Judging from the number of calls we have gotten for installs gone south, I can fully appreciate why both Jake and LN have moved away from the aftermarket and towards trained installers only. Unfortunately, there is one way to correctly install one of these updates, and a nearly limitless number of ways to get it wrong. And it does not matter how talented the shop is, they can still blow it if they do not follow the prescribed install procedures to the letter.

[Cajundaddy]

My money is on a bearing damaged during a fouled install and not a defective product. Mechanical engineers and Porsche racers understand this. A first-post company bashing is the "tell".

[cnavarro]

Sorry to hear that you have experienced an IMS bearing failure, but unfortunately this is the first I (or any one of my staff) hear of such failure, especially at 400 miles. We take these claims very seriously and each one has to be thoroughly investigated and is by myself and also outside consultants including the bearing manufacturer. We have a strict procedure in place and this requires some effort by the shop that sold the product and did the installation. Without their participation in this procedure, it’s presumptuous to jump to any conclusion. What shop did the work and when? What’s the serial number? Need a bit more information than what you have provided here.

Any reputable shop provides a warranty for the products and services they provide and they have insurance for this. This is called a “Shop Owners Policy.” In cases where a customer experiences a problem with a repair, this insurance is there to protect both the shop and the customer. As with any of our products, I do stand behind them and work with the shop to try to come to an amenable resolution as long as it is done so in a proper fashion.

As stated by others posting on this thread, we’ve had many issues with shops (many even very well known and respected, including Porsche dealerships) performing the IMS Retrofit procedure incorrectly including replacing failed bearings with our kits, not following procedures properly, and even damaging the IMS Retrofit assembly due to carelessness, lack of attention to detail, or in most cases, overconfidence. In many of these cases, thankfully the shops have been straightforward with their mistakes, but for every one honest shop there are several not so honest. This is an unfortunate truth. What makes things worse, is in most cases, honesty has nothing to do with it – ignorance is the biggest problem. We can’t sell common sense or bottle knowledge and no matter how hard we try to educate, some don’t care to learn or want to change hence the old adage “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.”

Many complained when we stopped accepting returns or allowing exchanges on Retrofit kits. The reason we did this is people would unknowingly damage the parts. To the untrained eye, they look fine, but upon thorough inspection, most returned products were rendered unsalable by physical damage or contamination.
The problem we now have is most retrofit kits are sold by wholesalers, who do allow returns and exchanges. Their return departments do not know what they are looking at or for. As a result, we’ve had calls from shops that have received our kits with missing parts, contamination, and even physical damage. If it wasn’t for the keen eye of some technicians, these parts could be installed into a customers engine and certainly could have experienced a failure with these components, no fault of our own making. This happens regularly. I have three kits sitting at my desk now that were damaged by shops and then returned to the wholesaler as “unused” or “defective.” Out of the dozens of returns we’ve received, all but a few have been damaged by the installer and do not fall under manufacturer defect. We have very strict manufacturing tolerances and procedures in place to prevent these kinds of problems.

As a result, we have had to cut our warranty to 30 days to cover reseller minimum requirements, otherwise we would not even offer a warranty any more. There are too many variables out of our control including but not limited to the countless modes of failure that can create foreign object debris which directly would cause the ims bearing to fail. It is the expert opinion of our supplier’s engineer that these isolated failures are due to improper handling and installation.

The IMS Solution is not an LN Engineering product. It was co-developed by myself and Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations as a permanent solution to the IMS problem and is manufactured and sold by IMS Solution LLC. That said, it does not replace the IMS Retrofit as the IMS Retrofit is a proven product that has saved many engines that otherwise would have had to have been replaced if said product was not offered. We will continue to offer and support the IMS Retrofit and it’s constantly being improved when technology allows, like changes to our current production run featuring bearings that have been cryogenically treated. The IMS Solution is a much more expensive product and won’t be right for everyone, hence the importance of having multiple offerings including these, the IMS Guardians, and even Pelican Part’s IMS kit.