1985 3.2 won't start

[otif]

Just picked up an '85 Carrera. Black/Black. beautiful looking car. I'm really excited about it as it's a great looking car (even with the whale tail, which I'm not too fond of.), but I'm having some problems getting it started. PO stated that the car started up just fine until a couple weeks ago, and then it sputtered and shut off.

Here is what I know so far:

1. Has spark from coil, and plugs
2. Has been converted to MSD ignition
3. PO syas it may be a relay issue - claims "somebody" told him that
4. Exhaust shows residue of having been running rich
5. I tried some starting fluid, and nothing happened

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Roger 911]

Welcome to the world of Motronics! First, I would suggest doing some searches. There is a ton of info on this forum regarding Motronic issues.

Does your car turn over and die? Or does it not even fire? If you have confirmed spark, you may want to make sure the fuel pump is running while you're cranking the starter. You should probably check the fuel pump relay as well, under the drivers seat. If you can confirm that the fuel pump is running when it should be, then you may want to move on to sensors.

Again, do some searches, odds are you will find your answer somewhere on the forum.

Good luck.

Roger

[otif]

Originally Posted by Roger 911

Welcome to the world of Motronics! First, I would suggest doing some searches. There is a ton of info on this forum regarding Motronic issues.

Does your car turn over and die? Or does it not even fire? If you have confirmed spark, you may want to make sure the fuel pump is running while you're cranking the starter. You should probably check the fuel pump relay as well, under the drivers seat. If you can confirm that the fuel pump is running when it should be, then you may want to move on to sensors.

Again, do some searches, odds are you will find your answer somewhere on the forum.

Good luck.

Roger

Thanks, Roger...

The car doesn't fire at all. What I found strange was that it didn't fire when I put some starting fluid in it. I'll check the fuel pump/fuel pump relay, and search the forum. Thanks!

By the way, I used to have a 2007 Q7, too. Probably my favorite car ever!

[Jtt84911]

Ralph,
Go to Ecudoctors dot com and look at their diagnostic video and troubleshooting section on 911's.
Could be your ECU is shot.

Good news for you is ECU Doctors are in Miami area.Great peeps. They have a very good exchange program.

Last year- turned off my 84 Targa about 30 minutes from home. Had to ride back home on flatbed.After replacing ECU relay and checking sensors.....determined ECU was shot. Got rebuilt from Jorge at Ecu drs and car fired up immediately. Also idled and ran better!

Getting 20 yrs out of original is ahead of the game. BTW-Go for the 87 box. It has bigger chip and more memory.

Good luck
JTT

[EAP]

The relay your PO was likely talking about is the DME relay and is located under the driver seat. Our host sells them and most of us carry a spare in the glove box. You can try to tap on the relay and see if you have any luck. Basically you need three things to make an engine run:
1) Spark
2) Fuel
3) Compression
You are missing one of these items, obviously.
As for the fuel pump, it will only operate when the DME gets a signal from the crankshaft position/speed sensors. Over time the sensor leads become brittle and the signal can be lost. Then there's the DME (the brain). I had some significant DME issues and had to have it rebuilt.
Great cars, enjoy!!

[Elombard]

look up 'jumpering the relay' and you can eliminate the relay and confirm the fuel pump is working and hopefully start the car.

[al lkosmal]

more detail plz.....When you used starting fluid, did it fire up at all?. If it fired up, but would not stay running, I would suspect a fuel issue, If it did not fire at all, I would suggest that you do not have a fuel problem....but an ignition/timing problem.

regards,
Al

PS: Is this car running with both the MSD and Motronic? Was it running in this configuration previously or is this a new configuration?

[Discseven]

All great comments for you Ralph!

I'll add that I spoke with the guys at ECU Doctors since I'm nearby. They were very accommodating and so I'd second JTT's recommendation without reservation.

[GaryR]

Also consider sending it to Ingo here on Pelican for a rebuild and swap to the 28 pin chip, he does a great job and you retain you own ECU.. He's quick, can have her back up and running within a week!

[Elombard]

2nd for Ingo! Hes the man. I have heard lots of stories of MSDs going bad over time and I experienced this. They are great and very reliable units but eventually they can have problems. You can send it to them for testing and rebuild. IIRC it was not expensive.

That is a weird combo (MSD w/ Motronic) - isnt the Motoronic as good as anything on the market at the time as far as ignition goes?

[crustychief]

3rd for Ingo. He is awesome!

[ischmitz]

Hi otif,

if you have spark the car should start and run/sputter when introducing fuel (starter fluid). If that doesn't work go back to the basics:
- get a good new DME relay or jumper both stages in the DME relay socket
- check DME gets power (vibrating ICV with key in ON)
- check that fuel pump comes on when cranking
- verify you have spark (inline tester)
- verify you have fuel (NOD light and check fuel pressure in rail)

If no spark and no fuel the first thing are the flywheel sensors, Ohm them out. Next, it could be the DME. If only fuel or only spark pulses this is more likely the DME. Also if sparks are intermittent that is a typical failure of the DME.

Good luck,
Ingo

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by EAP

As for the fuel pump, it will only operate when the DME gets a signal from the crankshaft position/speed sensors. Over time the sensor leads become brittle and the signal can be lost.

For clarification, the fuel pump comes on when you activate the starter. When you release the starter, the DME will then look for a signal from the crank/speed sensors to continue to run the pump. If the crank/speed sensor is bad, the engine will probably fire and die as soon as you release the starter.

Roger

[Chuck.H]

If an engine has spark, but won't even fire a little with starting fluid, chances are it's flooded, maybe from a sensor (cylinder head temp?) being off and giving the engine way too much fuel.

Might want to try starting it with the accelerator pressed to the floor, but if it does fire I'd shut it off - running an engine with way too much fuel can wash the cylinders and do some quick damage.

HTH,
Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 371k miles