Best Aftermarket Head Unit?

sneed21 · 11-24-2003, 08:56 AM

Allright, I'm ready to purchase an aftermarket head unit (CD) for my 328iC since the stock unit's display has vanished, and the volume control has flip flopped on me (turn left = volume up, turn right = volume down)...How in the world???... Anyway, I'd like to have some opinions on what head best fits. I know which are the best/most expensive......I would just like to know which one's you all have installed, that look and function well. I'd like to keep it looking as stock as possible (w/out it being stock), ie...black faceplate, same reddish/orange display, etc.... No swimming dolphins/racing ricers/silver faceplated piece of wizardry that has more buttons than Darth Vader's chestplate is needed. I will of course be hooking a couple of it's outputs to a 400W amp powering 2-10" subs.

No, I'm not the car next to you at the stoplight "chillin" to the bass that can be heard a mile away.....it's a convertible, and I can't hear the music that well on the interstate while doin 80 without some better speakers!

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

blkongry · 11-24-2003, 10:06 AM

You are in the same position as me, although my head unit still works. I too have a convertible, am not lookin' to rattle anyone's teeth, but want some nice rich sound out of my stereo... plus be able to hear it as speed with the top down.

I've done tons of stereos in my time, and my personal choice is Alpine. When building a nice 'users' stereo system, I prefer to go with a high power head unit to drive the mids and tweets, then an amp with some umph to drive a sub or two. That'll give you pretty much everything you want. Alpine has one of the highest and cleanest power outputs from their head units (27 watts x 4 RMS), plus they are dependable as hell. When you are looking at power, you need to look at RMS (Root Mean Square), which is more of a contiuous/real use power, rather peak power ratings. Blaupunkt also has a high output head unit, but I've never been fond of their lineup. I have friends who swear by them though.

Nachamichi also makes killer stuff, but they are more of a 'builders' head unit for custom stuff. Their CD400 head unit is a nice stereo ($320) with the amber lit display and controls looking similar to the BMW factory head unit. They rate the CD400 as 47W x 4 @peak power, which should translate into ~20-22W RMS.

Some head unit manufacturers are hit and miss. I used to love Sony products, but their Xplod line up is pretty lame. Pioneer has some decent stuff, but then you get dancing dolphins and other fluff. JVC has some cheap feeling stuff, but then a few nice units. Clarion is pretty tried and true. I love Fosgate's products, but not their head units. Kenwood is another decent choice, but not as high-brow as they used to be. Awia and Panasonic always seem to make pretty cheesy head units with 'noise' in them, but it's been forever since I've worked with these two product lines.

All in all, most of the competitive stuff out there is decent. The car stereo market is tough, and there are a lot of players. If someone makes crap, they won't be around long (remember Sansui?). Much of your decision is personal choice. If you want a clean, non-cluttered display with all the money you spend going into hard core powerful performance parts, I'd stick with Alpine or Nakamichi. If you want a little more fluff, there is a lot to choose from.

sneed21 · 11-24-2003, 10:23 AM

I've had an Alpine in the past and never had any trouble w/ it....unlike the Kenwood, JVC, and Sony, so that sounds like a good choice if, like you said, I can find one that has a good RMS # ...since peaking isn't going to give me much w/ the top down. I've been checking though and can't find an Alipine w/ a changable display color (ie, reddish)...most of them are blue or green.

I agree with you though, Sony has dropped off my list w/ the release of the X-Plod series........

BTW: Do I have a pretty good chance finding a radio wiring harness for the car/aftermarket radio?

I'll keep checking and thanks!

Jared at Pelican Parts · 11-24-2003, 11:11 AM

The best aftermarket head unit you will most likely find is Mcintosh, however at $2000 plus, it puts it out of the reach of most. I've found that Alpine or Blaupunkt seem to be the best head units. I've never had a major problem with them, Unlike Sony, Kenwood and Pioneer, all of which I have owned, and had the LCD display burn out. Be sure to look more for the higher end of the Blaupunkt stuff. Some of it is marketed towards the lower end, and priced accordindgly.

p.s. Blaupunkts have a reddish color that matches the BMW's lighting pretty close

blkongry · 11-24-2003, 01:42 PM

You shouldn't have a problem finding a wiring harness. Since I'm keeping the head unit, I needed a wiring harness to pick off from the pin-out pattern leading from the head unit to the amp, and Best Buy had it (I still need to pull the thing apart and confirm it's the right harness, but they had harnesses for the E36 none the less).

Mcintosh is some serious high end stuff. Very, very nice, but now you're talking competition quality... not a 'users' head unit. I distinguish between 'users' and 'builders' because they are for two different applications. If you want a stereo you can crank and get into as you fly down the interstate with the top down, then you want a users stereo. If you are concerned with imaging, staging, and being articulate with your frequency separation, then you want a 'builders' head unit. These are usually low power units (sometimes strickly line level) because they expect that you are going to get your power from periphials. Don't get me wrong, you can make a system like you have never experienced with some good thought and nice equipment (namely high end speakers, connectors, amps), but it would get lost on the everyday application.

I agree to stick with Alpine, Blau, or Nak. (here is some info on that Nak with the "BMW matching display" http://www.carmedia1.com/index.html?target=p_381.html&lang=en-us ) ...it's undoubtably Alpine for me, even with their characteristic bluish display.

Cristian · 11-25-2003, 07:30 AM

To install a McIntosh in a convertible is a waste of money. Unless you want to listen to it in the garage, the wind noise will cancel all the details of the unit (I am familiar a little with McIntosh, but I didn't know they have a car unit...).
Then, the power measurements: I am not sure what you guys mean by RMS and peak, in the description above... All measurements will be in Peak, as far as I know. RMS would mean that you can disipate all the heat very fast (heating the sink will lower the power output!) and that is just not too easy on the head units, mounted in a dash...
Also, the power they quote is more of a measurement of how low of a impedance (of the speaker) you can drive, since the voltage is pretty much the same for all head units (14V when engine is running). As far as I know, there are no head units on the market that will have a built in voltage converter. There are some (small) losses on the final stage of the amp, but they are pretty low now a days... Anyway, the power measurement is more of a marketing gimmick to me, because most of the bridged outputs (speaker is connected to the head unit with 2 wires, and none of them is a GND) will output a max of around 25W on a 4 Ohm speaker...

Jared at Pelican Parts · 11-25-2003, 07:45 AM

When I hit the lottery, this is the stereo im getting

blkongry · 08:57 AM

There is a very clear mathematical difference between peak power and RMS (continuous/average) power. RMS is the Root Mean Square, which is a mathematical calcualtion of overall power. In layman's terms, it is the usuable power. Most head units now describe power using RMS ratings. see... http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-Ker68Q4qDtQ/ProdGroup.asp?c=3&s=0&cc=01&g=300 ...nearly all the head units are described in RMS power, since it is what you are really going to use. Peak power is what the amplifier is capable of putting out in a single burst without damaging any of the components... something like a sharp note or a burst of bass (generating bass takes a lot of power). It doesn't really tell you much about the breadth of the head unit's capability. I mean, you could get a high powered deck that is very 'peaky', and it will saw your head off with the way it puts out music.

Now, if you want to talk about overall power and the rest of the system, it is all regulated by Ohm's Law -> (P)=(I^2)*(R), where (P) is power, (I) is current, and (R) is resistance/impedance. In a sense you are right that manufacturers quote power on the lowest resistance you can drive, but nearly all amplified head units are fixed at 4 ohms. Most amplifiers are 2 ohm stable which, from Ohm's Law, if you drop from 4 ohms to 2 ohms, it doubles your power flow (everything is fixed at a voltage of 12VDC... it shouldn't be running at 14V since you have a voltage regulator in your alternator, unless something has gone wrong with it). I haven't heard of any bridgeable head units, nor any running at 2ohms... that technology is usually reserved for amps. Bridging of power is a technique usually reserved for sub woofer, since you are shooting for power, not so much clarity. Head units aren't designed to power subs, just mids and tweets.

You are right that there are always losses on amps, and you lose more with heat... heat creates resistance, which takes away from power. How much heat that is generated in a head unit all depends on how it is designed, and the heat sink is just there to dissipate the heat. If you have a lot of heat, a larger heat sink will keep your system stable.

On a last note, there are only two wires to a speaker... one is power, and the other is a 'clean ground', which closes the loop. If you get a real crappy, cheap head unit, they will often run one common ground for all the speakers. This works, but is dirty. A separate ground for each speaker should be run from each channel of the amplifier. Now, a ground doesn't mean just to the chassis of a vehicle. What it truly means is an electrical connection that brings the potential (another name for voltage) back to zero. It is the 'ground level' to base a voltage off of, and is often the end of a circuit.... so the negative wire from a speaker is actually to a ground in the amp.

In all, if you go with a reputable manufacturer (i.e. Alpine, Nak, Blau), their RMS ratings should be pretty valid. Match your components to the power ratings, and you can't go wrong.

Eric-325I · 11-25-2003, 10:57 AM

I must second and/or third the recomendations for Alpine. I've installed units bought from www.crutchfield.com in my fathers truck and my wifes sedan and they both love them... Reliable, sound great, and look great. Crutchfield may not be the very cheapest but they include car specific instructions for removing the dash and installing the units that are great. They also include the wiring harness specific to the car which is a huge plus...

No, I don't work for them, just a happy customer for years...

Cristian · 11-25-2003, 02:56 PM

Blkongry, you are right about the RMS power rating... And it's the way it should be, I agree (the honest way). For some reason I was under the impression that most of the manufacturers still use Peak (muuuuuuuch better numbers).
But I have to disagree with you on a few things:
12 V is the voltage from a battery when the engine is not running. All alternators would charge a battery to about 14 V (try your car if you don't believe me). All manufacturers of head units use this voltage when they claim the output power.
The speaker is not connected to ground, clean or dirty

The output of the amp is "bridged" and this is valid for any car amps that can output more than 7W!
The way an amp sounds has less to do with the claimed peak power (the peak power is just a dishonest way to represent your product, as I said) but with a lot of other things. My point: good RMS numbers would not guarantee good sound (did you ever see a RMS vs THD number?).

To answer the initial post (sneed21), if the output power is at least 20, you should be happy. 20 clean watts in a car (x4) would blow you away... Too bad they are not so clean, though. If they claim 40Wx4, I would become susceptible...

Jared at Pelican Parts · 11-25-2003, 03:16 PM

Wow, learn something new everyday

matthew-m · 11-25-2003, 05:36 PM

I used to sell car audio, and I can tell you every manufacturer that includes a speaker amp in their head unit rates them at peak power. Nakamichi, Sony, Alpine - they all rate the internal amps at peak power with a 1kHz signal with major distortion. I think Pioneer is the only one that can actually bridge two channels to form a mono amp, which they claim is capable of driving a small subwoofer. I personally wouldn't use the internal amps of any unit.
I will say the Nakamichi units are very nice, will match the interior nicely and are very easy to use. I love the CD700 I have now and would say it is better than that Macintosh piece (which is just a dressed up Clarion).

sneed21 · 11-26-2003, 03:52 AM

Thanks for the wealth of information! I ended up going w/ a Blaupunkt...UPS scheduled delivery: December 1st. In the meantime, I've started replacing the stock speakers....replaced the rear box type last night. Here we go again.....

Eric-325I · 11-26-2003, 04:04 AM

The Nakamichi specs look awfully mediocre at best to me (signal draw, signal to noise ratio, etc.)...

sneed21 · 11-26-2003, 06:03 AM

BTW: Does anyone have any pics of a sub fitted between the rear seats in the recess for the armrest? I think I remember seeing a pic of an M3 w/ this mod, but can't remember where. It may have been an 8", or maybe it wasn't a sub but a 6X9.................

blkongry · 11-26-2003, 07:54 AM

It is true that stereo manufacturers used to rate all their head units at max power... Pioneer the was the leader in this, slappin' on a big ol' 45wx4 on their SuperTuner models. Although, things have changed. The majority now list them at RMS values, which I appreciate. If it says RMS on the data sheet, it has to be RMS, otherwise it is flat out misrepresentation, and against the law. Some manufacturers still list at max power (such as that Nak link I had), which you always have to take with a grain of salt. All manufacturers should list both the RMS and peak power range on their data sheets, or you can just calculate RMS from the peak power range.

Now, if one really wanted to open the question of what kind of power you are getting, you have to start looking at different aspects of an internal amp to rate it. Is the manufacturer taking the power rating of each channel, then multiplying it by the number of channels? Or are they taking the power output as a whole and dividing it between the channels? I'll put my money on that they are taking the power as a whole and dividing it, because it 'looks' better because there are slight losses per channel. Here is a website with a pretty good insight into amplifier ratings, what bridging means, and what to look for... always good to know for the stereo consumer. http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/education/amplifiers/power-ratings.htm

As far as the negative being a ground, there may be a bias on the whole system, but it still has to be a reference on that channel. I mean, a speaker is just a finely tuned electromagnetic sound transducer. You pass power through it, it generates a corresponding magnetic field... repels or attracts to the permanent magnet moving the cone and creating sound. To power an electromagnet, you need line power and a reference ground for the power to return to, thus completing the ciruit. The power side controls what frequency comes out... if the other side wasn't a controled reference, the power side couldn't be accurate on its output and the sound would be distorted. Although, a bias on a speaker should create hum, so it should be a neutral ground.

There is more to choosing a quality stereo than just power output, such as THD (Total Harmonic Distortion), but most quality manufacturers have very acceptable/decent THD levels and usually aren't a concern.... the power is the more prevalent variable.

The above mentioned website is pretty neat. They have a glossary link area (in white text, about in the middle of the page as it opens) with links to pages that explains how a speaker works, Theile/Small Parameters, definitions of mids/tweets/subs, enclosure designs, amplifier ratings, and much more. A pretty comprehensive site for anyone wanting to build a system and not sure what they are looking for or at.

supertack · supertack's Garage

Here's an interesting thought. If general opinion is that Alpine is one of the top after market products for sound & reliablility, then why do most of us have so many problems with our stock Alpine units?

blkongry · 11-27-2003, 10:27 AM

Ya know, I've wondered the same thing. It seems to be night and day between their factory stuff and aftermarket. I wonder if they are two totally different divisons? Although, I'm pretty sure you can patch in an aftermarket changer to a factory head unit... so they can't be that different.

supertack · supertack's Garage

Maybe it's a situation where the stock stuff is made with the shelf life in mind that would segway one into buying their aftermarket stuff. I mean come on, their both manufactured by Alpine, how frickin different can they be? That is unless they were built with different quality standards.

Cristian · 12-02-2003, 11:13 AM

Supertack, I think the difference comes from the number of the units... Count the number of BMWs sold (with Alpine players), then count the number of people that have problems, and I bet you'll end up with a very small percent of failures... I think aftermarket units are not sold by hundreds of thousands... And also, remember that people that never had any problems with their unit, they ussualy don't start a new topic with "radio works just fine".
I don't have any data to back up my assumptions, so I might be wrong, but this would be my guess.