94 318is Shifting Issue after clutch replacement

[95BadBoy]

Replaced clutch on a friends 318, shifted OK B4 replacement - but the throwout was going out big time & had some slipage. New clutch works great. Although the shifter does not want to fully slide into any gear completely, goes about 3/4 in & will pop out when releasing clutch. Took to a tranny guy I know, he looked at it and thought there was too much play in the shifting rod ect. Ordered shift rebuild parts, when removing old parts - there was very little wear on any of them. Car has 145K on it.

Any thoughts on on this?

[coolbear1]

You didn't put the cluch disc in upside down did you?
Don't know what it would do if you did. But I think that If something in the clutch is dragging against the pressure plate, the transmision can't stop spinning when you press the cluch in, the gears won't sync.
The reason I ask is, I just did my 93 and noticed how easy it would be to do.
There was a warning in the kit not to do it, thats most likely the only reason I didn't do it myself.

[95BadBoy]

I sure hope not, one of my friends has worked as a heavy man for an import shop for about 25 years, he actually installed the clutch itself. Any chance that the detent balls or springs could have shifted inside the tranny just by removing & reinstalling it? I'm about out of ideas on this one.

[coolbear1]

Hard to say, but if your transmission was shifting ok before the cluch change, I would suspect something in the repair is causing it.
When you depress your clutch with the engine running and the shifter in neutral, the tone of the engine and/rpms should change. If not, the transmission is not braking, it is spinning with the clutch in.
The gears will grind and try to jump out of gear because the syncronizers can't mesh the gears.

[Jeron]

So I take it you placed the shifter parts and it still does the same thing. My first guess would have been a problem in the shifter. I would have suggested starting under the shift boot to make sure the padding was not in the way and the ball was seated in the cup.

coldbears post is what I would try next . You need to see if the clutch is fully disengaging.

[95BadBoy]

I did replace the shifter parts, the ball is fully seated. I will check the boot and padding situation, as I had not even thought of that, will also check as Coolbear1 suggested and post back.

[95BadBoy]

On clutch, peddle released - about a 50 to 100 rpm drop. Clutch depressed back up to where it was. On shifter, with rubber boot removed from bottom - no foam blockage noticable with shifter removed.

[Jeron]

I would double check the linkage. But I know you said it has already been reworked since the problem occurred.

I search and found this: "A transmission that jumps out of gear may be due to bent, binding or loose shift linkage, a loose transmission or clutch housing, worn or damaged input shaft bearings, broken motor mount, worn tapered gear teeth or synchronizer hub splines, loose shifter fork or rails, interlock hardware that is broken or missing, or excessive end play or run out in the output shaft or counter gear."

I dont see a loose clutch housing causing it.
Loose tranny housing would be obvious.
Worn bearings, gears, syncros would not occur so suddenly after a job.
Loose fork or other internals seem possible.

The tranny fluid is clean and you didn't switch fluids did you?

[95BadBoy]

Have not checked tranny fluid. Motor mounts either. Will check both of those as quckly as possible . I do recall the motor mounts not looking to hot. Dealing with a small blizzard today. Linkage is tight as can be expected - as I have replaced pretty much everything that could be on a linkage rebuild, nothing looks bent in any way in that area.

I very much appreciate your input in this.

[Jeron]

I was about to say "how can the motor mounts cause it" but I gave it a second thought. The engine and tranny are supported by two motor mounts and two tranny mounts. If those are loose, heavily worn or misaligned when the tranny was reinstalled then I can see them causing this.

I would loosen the tranny mounts at the tranny and jostle the engine to make sure it is sitting square and is not putting tension on the tranny mounts. Then make sure the tranny mounts and support brace are aligned properly.

Its a shot in the dark though. The engine mounts would have to be severely worn or the tranny brace bolted up with a lot of pressure on the engine mounts.

[95BadBoy]

Drivers side motor mount is very worn, rubber isolator very very deteriated - 3/4's split through. Passenger side not super - but no where near as bad as drivers side. Have not checked trans fluid yet.

[Jeron]

The clutch job probably "did in" the very worn motor mounts.

For a typical driver I would use OEM motor mounts. You "might" consider a stiffer tranny mount but it probably isn't something you would notice an improvement on.

Either way replace the both the tranny mounts and the motor mounts. The tranny mounts are very easy to replace. Replace the motor mounts first, before the tranny mounts.

[95BadBoy]

I will most likely order the mounts tommorrow, & cross my fingers that this might do the trick.
Jeron, I want to thank you for following along with this thread. This has been quite a drawn out project for me - something that started as a favor for a friend, rapidly turned into a very hard to pin down nightmareish never ending Sherlock Holmes detective investigation lasting well over a month and a half. With any answers few and far between. I'm thinking the car owner is most likely at wits end with me & the time duration the whole process is taking, But in my neck of the woods sometimes real BMW info is very hard to find.

Parts ordered 12-7, now the waiting game.

[95BadBoy]

Mounts arrive Friday, will start Saturday. Crossing fingers now for luck.

[95BadBoy]

Too busy Saturday, replaced motor mounts today. To my surprise - both were completely trashed and torn through. Replaced the tranny mounts also, they were not too bad - pretty sure trans mounts were not the culpret in the shifting issues. Trans fluid looks to be a milky pink like that old antacid they used to sell, Pepto Bismo I think is was called - this does not look right at all - but I could be wrong. Trans fluid also seems to be over full, it literally pored out when removing the fluid level check plug with the car being pretty level on jack stands ( I was thinking that it should be about level with the plug hole ). Gave the trans some good shaking to try & make sure everything lined up properly when replacing mounts.

Now to drop it down & give it a test.



Gave this car a pretty good drive. Car itself feels way better. First gear is great, 2nd - 3rd - 4th - reverse are still not going in properly. Still popping out unless you hold the shifter lever with pressure while releasing the clutch, double clutching seamed to help - but is still not the answer. Down shifting did not seam any where near as bad. Although replacing the mounts did get rid of the angry sparrow sounds from the engine bay. Any ideas on this ?

[Jeron]

Did you replace the bad tranny fluid?

[95BadBoy]

By that time everything was closed. Will pick up some this week. Is dextron 2 correct for this tranny ?

[Jeron]

Dexron 3 or better yet synthetic or even better Royal Purple Syncromax (or the like).

I would put in Dexron 3 for a week to clean it out then put in a synthetic.

However I don't see the tranny fluid causing such a quick onset of your problem. I think you will soon be pulling the tranny to make sure the clutch is installed correctly.

[95BadBoy]

Will pick trans fluid up and get that changed. Most likely has had some water contamination at some point by the look of things. Hard to believe someone could have over filled the trans that much. This is definately one of those deals where no good deed goes unpunished.

[95BadBoy]

Holy cats man, there was well over 70+ oz's of fluid / water in the trans. Factory spec's say ruffly 37 to 38. There was also filings that were binding things inside the trans. Dumped, flushed, filled. Dumped & filled again. Will dump it again in about a week. Shifts as good as B4. Delivered back to owner. I now know more about 318's than I ever wanted to. It is probable a darn good thing that I ended up tracking things down on this car for the owner, so many things were either shot or had issues. I doubt any local shop would here have done anything to address things that really needed to get done, or would have charged so much that it surely could have been more than the car is worth dollar wise.

Jeron, thanks for throwing info at me for the last few weeks. Also would like to give a shout to Michael at Pelican. Thanks all. The how to tech articles were absolutely the stuff!!