losing sleep

[Driftster]

1987 325e

1 Month out of service

Started with Fuel pump failure, replaced pump, then got no fuel no spark..

Replaced all 3 relays 2x, checked CPS its within functioning ohms, hooked up second functioning ECM....Nothing..

It cranks and cranks and cranks..but nothing..


I can manually start the fuel pump so it's a working unit.

I'm almost 100% positive i should be getting spark now although i'm not sure..

I don't know what to do anymore...

help??

[david dolan]

Originally Posted by Driftster

1987 325e

1 Month out of service

Started with Fuel pump failure, replaced pump, then got no fuel no spark..

Replaced all 3 relays 2x, checked CPS its within functioning ohms, hooked up second functioning ECM....Nothing..

It cranks and cranks and cranks..but nothing..


I can manually start the fuel pump so it's a working unit.

I'm almost 100% positive i should be getting spark now although i'm not sure..

I don't know what to do anymore...

help??

Have a look at pages 4-6 of the pdf file, it gives a guide for finding the faults with a non-starter. I know the anguish you are feeling, in my case it was only 3 weeks, keep going, you will find the problem!

Here's the link...http://www.************/newsletter/20...newsletter.pdf

[Rucsak]

Hi Driftster Have you tested the pump via back to front? Connect the system up - leaving off the inlet pipe to the engine - get someone to turn the key a couple of times to see if fuel is getting to the engine. Obviously be careful when doing this - you could disconnect the spark plug leads. & have a cloth in your hand to prevent splashes. Doing that will also clean out any gunk in the fuel line. Once you're satisfied reconnect. Put all the parts back to normal & take the Idle air control motor hose off of the intake & spray some WD40 in there while your pops cranks her over. Sometimes ignition systems can be very sneaky! This will make the engine fire if you are getting spark. Be very liberal with the spraying! If no dice... then you know for sure that you aren't getting fire to the cyl's. At this point it matters not whether you have fuel or not because whatever is causing your lack of spark is probably causing your lack of fuel as well. Being as it was all of the sudden like... it sounds like it could be a ground problem. Be sure that the ground at the ECM has continuity with ground at the battery. If not... start cleaning! By the way... I don't think I remember any E30's priming the fuel system before cranking. The fuel pump starts running when it gets a signal from the crank sensor. Good luck.

[Driftster]

well i finally had free time to get back under the hood..

I pulled the FPR, and guess what? No fuel..cranked it with the FPR unplugged and...no fueelll..

and still no spark.

i've pulled the ICV sprayed in an ignition fluid and nothing..

So there is NO spark aswell as no fuel.


Ok so let me give a rundown..

NEW fuel pump - tested, works, works with power applied directly to relay pin, does not work on it's own power
New EMU - Figured i'd try it, still nothing
New Main Relay (2 actually)
New Fuel pump relay ( 2 actually)
Good fuse
Distributor is functional
New Coil
Battery has a charge

Power is not getting from the EMU, to the proper pin on the fuel relay...( 2 pins should have a 12v supply correct? only 1 does)
There is no spark inside, as shown by the fluid test aswell as pulling plugs out and cranking it to visually check for spark

The car cranks and cranks and cranks, but the fuel pump is not getting power, and the car is not sparking..

Does this narrow it down to...SOMETHING?

[david dolan]

Try this, when you are turning the key and cranking the engine, bang on the top of the fuel pump with a rubber mallet. I chased my tail for 3 weeks looking for my start problem, I was convinced the fuel pump was ok, but when I did this test and it finally coughed to life again it pointed to a faulty pump. Or you could have loose connections at the pump. It's worth trying anyway. This pump had been previously pulled out of the tank and had 12V applied to it, it immediately spurted fuel all over my foot, I thought it was OK....turned out it wasn't!

[Driftster]

I would love for that to be it, but there isn't power getting to the pump upon cranking, power doesn't even get to the fuse block when cranking....I have to jump non corresponding pins in the fuel pump relay to get it going/


And still no arc from the coil wire when placed near ground

[Driftster]

Sorry for the double post..

I believe i've narrowed it down to 2 things..

Crank position sensor (maybe i'm just not reading the voltmeter correct....or some fluke of nature)

OR

Bad ground for the EMU

In the case of a bad ground is there any particular area i should check first?

now the finite symptons are NO Spark, I get power to the coil, but the coil will not fire.

the distributor is fine, as is all of that, the coil just won't fire, so i'm lead to believe the EMU is not telling the coil to fire..

Being that it is a NEW(er) EMU and i'm "hoping" it is functional it's got to be something that is preventing the EMU from telling the coil to fire.


Which correct me if i'm wrong..Could be the CPS...or a bad ground..right?

Now when i try to crank the car the check engine light FLASHES but doesn't stay lit..(the thing is always flashing) So there IS information coming from the EMU right? I've read that when the thing "stays on durring cranking" means there is no EMU signal..by "stay on" does it mean continues to blink or goes solid?

If that's the case i can rule out a bad ground....And I can turn my attention to the possible CPS failure...

As of right now i'm getting absolutely zero power to the fuel pump...

I'm wondering if maybe i shouldn't have put the walbro 255 back there..

I have a 255 in tank and the stock inline (my intank failed however my inline was still functional) i'm confident in the systems ability to use the pump because if i jump the fuel pump relay with a 12v source the pump activates pressurizes the whole 9.


SO...i guess what i'm asking is..

Is it ok to assume the CPS can STOP The ECU from sending power to the fuel pump ASWELL as telling the coil not to fire?

or is it just ONE of the symptoms this could rectify?

[david dolan]

From what I've read the if the CPS is faulty, it will not sense the engine is cranking over. If this happens there will be no message sent to the ECU and therefore no spark. Did you already try replacing your CPS with a known good CPS?
As for power seen at the fuel pump, you wii not see any until you are actually cranking the engine, you probably need 3 hands to check this properly, 1 to crank the engine and 2 more to hold the leads of the multimeter to the power connector to the fuel pump.

[Driftster]

well as of now i know i'm not getting power to the pump when i'm cranking..Why? Who knows..but no fuel comes from FPR inlet when cranking....The only way to get the fuel pump to pump is bridging pin 86 and pin 87 (the 86 pin is the ONLY pin with 12v going through it..

so the dme is again NOT sending power to the relay...

should i look for proper grounding for the dme? IF so where can i find a pinout for the 325e?

[Jeron]

Based on your first post I would suggest the CPS.

I only skimmed the other posts but it seems it has already been suggested. You should replace it before going any further.

[Driftster]

Roger that, that's pretty much all I was left with in terms of replacing things short of harness work...
I did as much research as I could but no one elses symptoms seemed to be similar to my own short of a no start....

I read it should start intermittenly(sp sorry I'm driving) and its resistance should be this and nothing about the relay power... but ill give this a go and if it works I hope if someone has the same prob they can stumble upon this thread

My fuel pump and cps died simultaniously....and out of the blue with no symptoms.....my luck...

[Jeron]

I'm a bit confused. Did oyu get it fixed? What was the solution?

[Driftster]

No, no recovery yet.

Still waiting on the parts should be here in a few days.

I'm just stating that there doesn't seem to be 2 of the same issues resulting from a bad CPS..

I took my old CPS and speed ref sensor out this morning and checked the resistance, the CPS was at ~1014 the Speed Ref was at ~1023


I'm crossing my fingers here...

Just seems like a weird group of symptoms to diagnose the CPS, but there's really NOTHING else it could be unless a wire decided to go into an alternate universe on me out of no where..because continuity in the harness is up to snuff.

[Jeron]

A bad CPS will cause the Fuel Pump not to run and cause the injectors not to spray and cause the coils not to fire.

Test it by checking the voltage at the sensor during cranking.

[Driftster]

voltage at the sensor?

The sensor as in the sensor itself will release some voltage?

Wow, that is something else i couldn't find ANYWHERE

The resistance on these thing i was told elsewhere was the only way to tell...and that wasn't even sure fire...

not to mention the bent saying 1 thing and masses saying another...

I'll give it a try once i get the battery re-juiced..(ran out of steam yesterday)

question....since speed ref/CPS have same part...if the Speed ref sensors good..could i put it in the CPS location and try and start it?

or will the engine not run unless BOTH CPS and Speed Ref are functioning.

[Jeron]

I believe the sensor produces voltage based on the RPM.

Here is a reference. It has more than one test but one is to test the voltage output.

[Driftster]

any idea if the car will run without a properly calibrated Speed Sensor?

A functional CPS but non working Speed one?

[Driftster]

Just got in a pair of sensors.

Installed them..

Nothing...

son-of-a

[tigerclaws]

Originally Posted by Driftster

any idea if the car will run without a properly calibrated Speed Sensor?

A functional CPS but non working Speed one?

Driftster, Did you get your car fix yet? If yes, would you please share with us?
Thanks and good lucks

[Driftster]

Car is still not running.

I haven't had time to check if its getting spark or fuel but my guess is no...

installed 2 new sensors and tried flipping the connectors just in case....

Nothing... cranks and cranks but no start. I've tested the harness plugs for power where there should be and ground where there should be and its ok.......


Soo soo far...

New coil
New emu
New wires
Good distributor
New fuel pump
New relays x 2
New crank position sensor
Timing belt is ok
Battery is strong