Looking at a E36 with 300k, Good Buy?

[Laptop_geek]

Alright guys, I new to the BMW world, but own and maintain a 944 that I love. I'm looking at getting a 1994 325i to replace my worn out DD. Here is the listing:

1994 BMW 325i

I called and talked to the guy, he seemed to be pretty honest. Told me that his father bought it about 9 years ago when it had 140k from the original owner. He told me it has not given him any major problems and has been a good car, clean title too. The starter does need replaced (a PITA from what I read), and said that'd run around $400 (as I'm told). It sounded like the front right strut needs replaced, but said it doesn't make any noise or vibrations other than that. He said it did burn a little bit of oil, but didn't say exactly how much (said he had to add a quart about every 6 months, but I'm not sure how much he drove it). He replaced the oil every 5-6k. The paint is in good shape. The drivers seat has a tear in it, but the others are in good shape.

That is the most of what he told me. Does this sound like a good buy? How much trouble can I expect from a BMW with so many miles? Should I keep looking for something else? I would like a 325 with a 5sp in it so that is a plus. I guess the most of what I'm looking for is if it will be a reliable car for me to DD, or something that I will end up having to spend mucho money on and have to work on it all the time. I will be doing all the work myself, (except tires and alignments), I've been doing all the work on all my cars since I can remember so that doesn't bother me. I'm going to look at it today, is there some specific thing I should look for?

Sorry if this post is a little hard to read.

Thanks for the help.

[Laptop_geek]

Oh, is the A/C blower going out a common thing? How hard is that to fix?

[markdas]

My immediate thought would be to factor in some big engine overhaul with 300,000 miles on the clock. Its probably been well looked after to have lasted that well, but its a big mileage!

You would probably be wise to change all the shock absorbers and have a good look at the brakes and flush the fluid.

Electrics can be troublesome, but if it starts and runs the ECU, sensors etc, must all be okay right now, check for fault codes and address them accordingly.

Starter is a pain but not a huge one, pick one up for $100 and spend an hour or two doing that yourself.

It coudl be a good enough buy depending on cost, but DD needs to be reliable I would have said!

[Laptop_geek]

He has it listed at $900, I could probably squeeze a little more out of him though.

How bad is a engine pull/rebuild on these cars? Is it very expensive?

[Manolito]

Any car that runs and passes whatever criteria is necessary to be registered is worth $900. I would say from your description that this is well worth $900. From the sound of things, you won't likely do better in that price range.

If it is an automatic, you have to pull the intake manifold to replace the starter. A bit of a pain, but the intake manifold gasket is probably due for replacement anyway. If it is a manual, I have heard that you can squeeze it in, but I don't see how.

Front struts are easy to replace, though not necessarily cheap. Check those ball joints while replacing the struts. They tend to fail at 150k miles, though the new design ball joints are improved.

AC blower is usually the resistor. The motors rarely fail. Is this a manual control heater or climate control computer?

[Yurick]

Personally, I would be leery of purchasing any car for any amount of money with this kind of mileage on the clock, considering that you are looking for a daily driver. There are just to many things that could and will potentially fail.

God luck!

[Laptop_geek]

Well I went to look at the car, it was definaly a fixer upper. It need several things for the interior to be complete, Plus a good cleaning up of everything. From what he said it sounded like it would need an engine refresh before too long as it was burning some oil. He was Push starting it using his truck, so the rear bumper was going to need replaced and it was going to need some paint before too long. Also it would need all new struts and probably bushings too. Overall not something I think I want to get into right now, it would make a good project for an autox car or something of the sort, but not a DD. He did text me not too long ago and tell me he'd take $650 for it, sounds like he's pretty desperate to get rid of it.

[Laptop_geek]

I went to go look at a '98 328I with 160k on the clock. Much better condition overall and comes with service records since 05. I am thinking about this one, but it is having the same problem with the A/C unit and radio not getting power (this one has climate control). Is this a big issue to fix? He said it was getting power intermittently, but has now pretty well stopped completely. It has a few things wrong with it:

Interior:
Visor latches,
Door handle trim,
Two of the windows dont work,
Power recline doesn't work,
No power to Radio and A/C (mentioned previously)
and probably some other things I'm missing

Exterior:
Several dings in the side of the car/doors,
Scrap on the passengers side rear fender about 4-5 in long,
Larger dings in the hood (probably from someone sitting on the hood),
Several small scratches in the paint,
Front grill is loose,
Hood ornament is missing,
It wonders while at speed (thinking a steering rack or something of the sort, yes?)
Has some lights out (low beam headlight, brake light)
The fog lights don't work
Has been backed into at a parking lot and had the drivers side rear quarter panel repaired and repainted several years ago (small scratches in the primer due to a poor paint job),

It did run well and shifted through all gears fine (automatic) and seemed to be well taken care of. Paint looked like it was in good condition only needing a good buffing to bring back some shine. They said they bought it 5-6 years ago while there son was a junior or senior in high school and he drove it till he went to college and its been sitting around for the past year and a half or so. He is asking $3000, but willing to work with it a little bit, what sounds like a fair price to offer? I didn't get any photos while I was there, but I do have the craigslist add.

http://memphis.craigslist.org/cto/2794746104.html

[Laptop_geek]

Oh, on the last service sheet the mechanic said "service due: power steering pump in future $499, valve cover gasket needs replaced $115". Are the power steering pumps a problem on this car?

[Manolito]

Doesn't sound to me like it has been all that well taken care of. That is quite a list of things that they have been ignoring, but from what you report, $3k sounds about right. I would figure on investing another $1k in parts or $2k parts and labor to get it where I would be comfortable using it as my daily driver. Do the tires look good? If not, there is another $500

Visor latches - no big deal, fix if annoying

Door handle trim - ?

Two windows don't work - e36 windows are pretty reliable if they are adjusted properly. I would suspect the problem would most likely be the switch, but that is a guess. Try swapping window switches around.

Power Recline doesn't work - VERY common. Nylon gear splits. $40 at OdometerGears.com where you will find excellent instructions for replacing the gear.

No power to radio and A/C - unusual for them not to get any power. Dark displays are common, but not no power at all. That may take some diagnostics. Fixes for the more common problems are all over the web (including my web page).

Front grill loose - probably an aftermarket grill. You can tighten it with electrical tape around its perimeter or by snapping it out and bending the metal around it slightly.

Roundel missing - $25, easy to install

Wanders at speed - at 160k, based on the other stuff they have been ignoring, I would bet that it has original ball joints and control arm bushings and they are overdue. These steering racks rarely fail. You have to replace the control arms to replace the ball joints. Figure $300 for parts ($200 for URO brand). You can replace them yourself but it is a chore. Plan on making a weekend of it if you have not done it before. If you do it yourself and you don't have a rack and professional tools, don't even try to use solvent on the bushings like the book says. Use dish washing soap. Works fine and you don't have to race the clock. You will need an alignment afterward.

Brake lights are a bit of a pain on an e36. Don't be surprised if you have to pull the tail lights and solder shut holes that have burned in the traces when the contacts with the bulb holders got corroded and heated up. Fresh bulb holders are helpful once in a while to get things working.

Fog lights - low priority unless you actually drive in the fog at night (as I do two months a year) in which case these fog lights work great and are worth fixing. Can't be anything too serious.

Power steering pump - probably whining when cold. If so, just change the 13-year-old power steering fluid. If you use the 'turkey baster' method, you will only get out about 1/5 of the fluid each time you empty the reservoir, so you will need to suck the fluid out of the reservoir and replace it every weekend for a month or two to get the fluid fresh and the whine to quiet down. Easy and cheap.

Valve cover gasket costs $30 and you can absolutely change that yourself. I had my 14 year-old niece do one for me when I was laid up.

If you get an e36, you will spend a lot less money on it if you do most of the maintenance and repair yourself, so you will want a Bentley manual and a copy of 101 Projects.

[Yurick]

I've got a 1990 325iC (E30) that I may be putting up for sale this spring. The car has about 122k on the odometer and lots and lots of replaced parts:
suspension, brakes, timing belt, clutch, oil pan gasket, front and rear main seals, water pump.
The car is very clean inside and out.
Any potential takers?

[Laptop_geek]

Originally Posted by Manolito

Doesn't sound to me like it has been all that well taken care of. That is quite a list of things that they have been ignoring, but from what you report, $3k sounds about right. I would figure on investing another $1k in parts or $2k parts and labor to get it where I would be comfortable using it as my daily driver. Do the tires look good? If not, there is another $500 Will need new front tires, back have some life left.

Visor latches - no big deal, fix if annoying

Door handle trim - ? I saw it in the car, simply needs put back on.

Two windows don't work - e36 windows are pretty reliable if they are adjusted properly. I would suspect the problem would most likely be the switch, but that is a guess. Try swapping window switches around. The window switch was not looking good (didn't return to center) so that seems to be the problem there.

Power Recline doesn't work - VERY common. Nylon gear splits. $40 at OdometerGears.com where you will find excellent instructions for replacing the gear.

No power to radio and A/C - unusual for them not to get any power. Dark displays are common, but not no power at all. That may take some diagnostics. Fixes for the more common problems are all over the web (including my web page). I stated that it had no power but didn't have grounds to say that. What I should have said was "the radio and climate control don't light up". I'm not sure if that means no power or something else. I did play with the buttons on the radio, but it didn't turn on.

Front grill loose - probably an aftermarket grill. You can tighten it with electrical tape around its perimeter or by snapping it out and bending the metal around it slightly. It had a small dent in the plastic piece that the grill attaches too which was causing it to be loose.

Roundel missing - $25, easy to install

Wanders at speed - at 160k, based on the other stuff they have been ignoring, I would bet that it has original ball joints and control arm bushings and they are overdue. These steering racks rarely fail. You have to replace the control arms to replace the ball joints. Figure $300 for parts ($200 for URO brand). You can replace them yourself but it is a chore. Plan on making a weekend of it if you have not done it before. If you do it yourself and you don't have a rack and professional tools, don't even try to use solvent on the bushings like the book says. Use dish washing soap. Works fine and you don't have to race the clock. You will need an alignment afterward. I did wiggle all four tires around and found it had no slope while sitting on the ground. Would make since if it were the bushings. IIRC I didn't see a service ticket where they replaced the bushings.

Brake lights are a bit of a pain on an e36. Don't be surprised if you have to pull the tail lights and solder shut holes that have burned in the traces when the contacts with the bulb holders got corroded and heated up. Fresh bulb holders are helpful once in a while to get things working.

Fog lights - low priority unless you actually drive in the fog at night (as I do two months a year) in which case these fog lights work great and are worth fixing. Can't be anything too serious. One of the lenses is broken and the other simply doesn't work.

Power steering pump - probably whining when cold. If so, just change the 13-year-old power steering fluid. If you use the 'turkey baster' method, you will only get out about 1/5 of the fluid each time you empty the reservoir, so you will need to suck the fluid out of the reservoir and replace it every weekend for a month or two to get the fluid fresh and the whine to quiet down. Easy and cheap. Good to know, would have been my first plan of action.

Valve cover gasket costs $30 and you can absolutely change that yourself. I had my 14 year-old niece do one for me when I was laid up.

If you get an e36, you will spend a lot less money on it if you do most of the maintenance and repair yourself, so you will want a Bentley manual and a copy of 101 Projects. All maintenance will be done by me (short of alignment and mounting/balancing tires).

All this brings up a question. Are the E36's very reliable? I've been reading and from the reviews they are, but what I'm reading here is that they have a lot problems (cooling, and interiors mostly). Will this be a car that I buy and have to spend every weekend fixing something? I don't mind maintaining something if its going to last me and I enjoy it, but there is a big difference between maintaining and just throwing money at it. Are the E30's a better car? I was looking at the E36 cause it is newer and should have a few more creature comforts, but if the E30 will be a better car that has fewer errors in manufacture maybe I should look at them... What do you guys think about your cars? Is it maintenance or throwing money at it?

Thanks

[Manolito]

Are e36s reliable? The short answer is Yes. e36s very rarely leave anyone stranded on the side of the road. They do have a laundry list of common small problems. That list has been posted in various versions on every BMW enthusiast forum. If you have never owned an e36, reading that list will scare you. If you have owned an e36, you laugh as you read it saying "And I had that, and that, and that......" Virtually all of the problems are things that the average owner with standard tools can fix.

Is it reliable compared to a 14 year-old Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla? No. Is it reliable compared to any other 14 year-old sports sedan? Yes. Is an e30 a better car than an e36? Yes, but a well-maintained e30 is hard to find, and 20+ year old sports cars require a lot of care. If you want to spend a little more, and e46 is more maintenance-free than an e36. e46s have their own list of common problems, but it is a shorter list. Good thing, because e46s are harder to work on.

My family of four drives:
'97 328 5 sp with 275k miles
'97 328 auto with 155k miles
'04 330 auto with 97k miles
'04 325 5 sp with 135k miles
I spend about one Saturday a month in my garage working on cars. About half of them doing routine maintenance and half of them fixing things. There is always a to-do list. Right now, for example, the 330 needs the brake fluid replaced (do that every three years in Sacramento, two years in wet climates) and the gasket between the oil filter housing and the engine block replaced (It has been dropping the occasional drip on the garage floor for two years but it is getting worse.)

In over a half-million combined miles, these cars have stranded their drivers three times: once when one of the '97s blew a radiator in the parking lot of my wife's work; once when the 330 lost a fuel pump in the parking lot of the grocery store, and once when my daughter had a leaking water pump and she didn't notice it because she NEVER checks her oil or water, and she took off on a hot day to drive four hours home (oh, and once when I ran out of gas but we won't talk about that).

[Manolito]

If the radio plays but is dark, the most common problem is solved here:
e36_Radio_Dislpay.html

If the climate control is on the fritz, the fix to its most common problem is here:
Clim_Cntrl.html

[Laptop_geek]

Thanks for all that. That helps me out alot. I think I'm going to see if I can get it. KBB books it at $2800 in "fair" condition so I'll see what he'll do. I don't have a problem fixing the things that go wrong and keeping the car up, plus I think it'll be a fun car to drive. I'll talk to him and see where it goes!

PS: I have both those links bookmarked for future reference, thanks for putting them together.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Walk away. There are better deals out there...

[Yurick]

Geek,
It's your call, as it's your money, however, it sounds like you are trying to reinvent a wheel with this car. By the time you are finished dumping a bunch of money and elbow grease into this car, it still won't be worth half of what it'll cost you.

[airbil]

If you want e36;
Look for an M3 sedan with a 5 speed.
It's a lightweight, four door go cart.
Great handling for city zipping around.
Hard to find one in not beat condition.
Be patient.