twin plug and B&B headers

[jbrown]

I had my motor refreshed about 25,000 ago. She is nice and strong. I am a horsepower junkie, so I decided to go the next level. Since I want to run more boost I think it is in my best interest to twin plug the motor. What is the going rate to Twin plug.
I am also going with a new header. So I have a B&B header that I will be putting up for sale, propably in about 2 months. It is in great shape. If anyone is interested, you can pm me with resonable offers. Thanks John

Buy the way the motor is already EFI.

[T77911S]

the B&B is great header. not sure what you will find that is better.
twin plug expense is in the ignition system.
drilling the heads and valve covers is not that much.

[scottrx7tt]

I don’t think you are gonna find anyone that will drill and tap your heads without taking them off first. That turns into an expensive proposition if you don’t do the R&R yourself

[Rich76_911s]

I'm not really that qualified to give you an opinion, but here goes anyway.

Obviously heads would need to be drilled, if you didn't do that during the rebuild. I'd also have my heads drilled and tapped for 993 knock sensor bridges. I'd guess $700 give or take for all the machine work and shipping etc.

The way I see it you have two choices.
1. You can stick with the Tec GT. Probably all you need is a second set of coils, plug wires, and some minimal wiring from the tec GT to the new coil pack. This you're probably looking at another $1500 or so by the time you add it all up.

2. Dump the Tec GT and get a newer modern ECU (AEM, MS3Pro, etc). Likely going to be a lot more expensive, but if I were in your shoes I'd probably take this route. I did see a R-Gruppe car at rennsport with an MS3pro running twin plug with electromotive coil packs. Prices vary wildly if you go this route. If I had to guess probably 3k-7k depending on how much of the TecGT stuff you could reuse. Just a wild ass guess though.

[JJ 911SC]

The TECgt does not support 6 Cylinder Twin Plug. the TEC3R does.

https://electromotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TEC-matrix-V1-for-Website.pdf

[Rich76_911s]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

The TECgt does not support 6 Cylinder Twin Plug. the TEC3R does.

https://electromotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TEC-matrix-V1-for-Website.pdf

Glad I led with the qualifier "Probably." Thanks for fixing my error.

[robosst]

Just curious, what power are you at now and what are you aiming for? How much power are you comfortable with or is safe using single plug?

[scottrx7tt]

honestly, if you are EFI and have full control of timing and fuel, you probably don't need to go twin plug. I don't know if you are in an area that has easy access to E85, but that would certainly give you an advantage. I turboed a 9.7:1 compression engine and ran the snot out of it for over 2 years without any sign of detonation on E85

[jbrown]

Originally Posted by scottrx7tt

honestly, if you are EFI and have full control of timing and fuel, you probably don't need to go twin plug. I don't know if you are in an area that has easy access to E85, but that would certainly give you an advantage. I turboed a 9.7:1 compression engine and ran the snot out of it for over 2 years without any sign of detonation on E85

I was thinking about E85 tune instead of going twin plug. I am kicking this around also.
Right now my car is around 500whp.
My friend has a brand new Z06 and we are looking at each other 30-150mph. I would like to pull him lol. I could use a good dyno tunner in my area.

[pkabush]

I agree with T77911S on the B&B headers. Chris at TC has already done the homework for us. He’s ran em side to side on the dyno with all the other popular off the shelf exhaust systems. While there are some that sound better B&Bs get the win for performance.
As you well know chasing hp is anything but cheap with our cars but if you’re going big it makes sense to run twin plugs. To bad you didn’t have em drilled last time. I’d shoot Craig (Cgarr) a pm.
He’s reasonable and well respected here. Or better yet just send your care to Arizona for a well deserved vacation. ;-)

[timc]

Originally Posted by pkabush

I agree with T77911S on the B&B headers. Chris at TC has already done the homework for us. He’s ran em side to side on the dyno with all the other popular off the shelf exhaust systems. While there are some that sound better B&Bs get the win for performance.
As you well know chasing hp is anything but cheap with our cars but if you’re going big it makes sense to run twin plugs. To bad you didn’t have em drilled last time. I’d shoot Craig (Cgarr) a pm.
He’s reasonable and well respected here. Or better yet just send your care to Arizona for a well deserved vacation. ;-)

+1 on the B&B, and don't forget the superior build quality. Nice Thick flanges, as well as the Double walled slip joint, and, only one slip joint. Having owned and installed several others, they don't (IMO) compare to the B&B.

tim

[RarlyL8]

There is a better alternative to short tube headers.
Generic short tube headers will perform better than OEM but not better than a tuned system. Most are made from 304 stainless which is not robust enough for a turbo application. To compensate you need things like thick flanges and thick walled tubing which add weight and will still eventually crack. Designed and built by 930 enthusiasts, we use 321 which will withstand years of track use. True F1 style collectors and equal length primaries and secondaries produce greater off boost torque and horsepower. The elephant nose waste gate pipe coming off the T3 base at 90° encourages boost creep as the flow disturbance chokes off at higher RPM. Our system takes a signal from each bank at a more smooth angle for a more stable boost pressure flow to the waste gate. The latest generation of our headers has eliminated the collector slip joints. The primary and secondary systems connect with a v-band to further simplify installation. Yes our tuned headers are a bit more expensive than the generic short tube variety but you get a tremendous amount more in quality and engineering for your money. You also get that incredible tuned sound.

[MAH77]

What size turbo are you running?

[jbrown]

Originally Posted by MAH77

What size turbo are you running?

Billet GT35

[MAH77]

@how much pressure? Why spend money on another set of headers? If you have money why not turn up the boost a little and add meth injection?

[Carbster09]

The RarlyL8 exhaust (GT3 center outlet in Hooligan) absolutely "makes" my car! It has been one of the best value for smiles addition. To fit it I junked (sold) the B&B system. Now I want to remove the B&B headers ... when I upgrade the headers I know which direction I will be taking!

[jbrown]

Originally Posted by MAH77

@how much pressure? Why spend money on another set of headers? If you have money why not turn up the boost a little and add meth injection?

I already have Meth inj. My car is 8to1 comp. I am running 15-16lb now.

[356911930]

How do you like the meth injection. Do you think it is a worthwhile investment?

Rahl

[jbrown]

Originally Posted by 356911930

How do you like the meth injection. Do you think it is a worthwhile investment?

Rahl

I have never did a dyno comparison. I do no that after a hard run if I open the engine bay and touch the intercooler pipe into the manifold it is nice and cool, so air intake temp is lower than without it. Just a little insurance to me..

[TurboKraft]

John,

You can change the headers if you think necessary, but you're a long way off from maxing them out.

Kelly's 3.3L with those headers, single plug ported heads, EFI: 555whp on 91-octane pump gas

3.4L with those headers, twin-plug, same turbo, EFI and e85: 620whp and we maxed out that turbocharger.

Tom's UBER 930: 3.45L with those headers converted to twin scroll, twin-plug Xtreme-prepped heads, GT40R -- over 600whp on 91-octane pump gas, over 720whp on e85.


I'd recommend allocating those new header resources elsewhere for more bang-for-your-buck.