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I choose the Split Second AIC unit because it allows me to contol up to 6 injectors that will progressively pulse set to RPM and MAP. The duty cycle will progressively add fuel as RPM increase. I could actually the CIS sytem and use this unit to directly feed all 6 cyliners...or just the one...in a very controlled way.....so adjusting the map based on AFRs is not the most modern approach ( as in a turbo kraft approach) but its a big stepup from the Andial dialer. Its an affordable and easy to install appraoch to adding a little fuel.... OPINION ALERT....there is a big difference between fueling big fuel demands at high boost levels in a stock engine with a stock and aged CIS system and sourcing and updated all the CIS components, adjusting and testing them for months to optimize the available fuel to near perfect....and then supplementing safish WOT AFRs with a little more fuel to bring the car into safer zone. Everyone seems to really focus on the distrution of fuel....sure maybe. But to my point above.....the AFRs are alreads livable for brief time at WOT high RPM with out it...so it will only be better. I have had the air meter, injectors ,FH and WUR all calibrated and flow tested...so its a close to perfectas it can be.... |
too much coffee this AM- so I will indulge and share more of my OPINION....and while opinion I have driven many of these mods on my car as it evolved and on freinds cars that have evolved,,,I would also suggest people who are so convinced this is a bad idea....realize things change...and its sum of the parts.....
1) the GT35r pumps alot more air at 6000 RPM than the K27 variants so possible there is greater potential for atomization 2) the 7th injector installed just below the TB and meets the rush of air...and is not being used at low RPM / Vacuum or Low Boost 3) the modern injectors have improved spray patterns 4) the AIC units can control pulse rates to match the boost levels with greater precision 5) having the ability to data log and review charts make this much easier 6) a max flow 007 fuel head withadj WUR and RPM solenoid with 1/4in fuel lines, 044 motorsports pumps,split relay fused power and and updated alternator are all essential first steps if you are runnning +1 bar with a K27 or using a GT35r 7) a modified maxflow 007 fuel head can be adjusted to deliver more fuel to meet most of the greater fuel demands 8) Cylinder 2 /5 have been noted to run hotter ( I believe the middle cylinders get less cooling) and you can adjust the differntial chambers in 2/5 to get a little more fuel... 9) a maxed fuel head adds a twist....more fuel mean more fuel everywhere....soyou need to deal with FAT from end or Lean backend. - an Electron boost controller can help ..raise boost for the fat part of curver ...and tapper in higher RPM - A manual BC you cantry to find a good balance....but while rich is good ...AFr s in the 10s as boost rolls in will reduce the crispy throttle and make motor boost more slowly effecting TQ. - higher boost requires attention to ignition....andor a properly working overboost sensor. If you can afford the 5 K ( cheapo system) to 15+K ( turbo kraft) price for JUST for parts...then by all means....I have zero doubt its the **** in every way. I have spent a small fortune on this car over the last 5 years so EFI will have to wait. I would say....based on my experiece...unless you are willing to work hard at making it work...follow the road maps here on Pelican.....manymany people have perfected the recipes....and in all but the most extreme situation....the products and methods are tried and true. Here are MY suggestions... WIDE Band O2....can be with out one...PERIOD dont proceed to mod your car without one. Turbo..anything is better than a 3LDZ. Yank that thing...and send to Charlie at Evergreen. He can make that 3LDZ, 7006 or 7200 sing.. The 7200 raptor is the standard for a CIS car. If you have a good working CIS system-you can easily meet the needs of the Raptor. Avoid the GT35r unless you want to go EFI...and if so...DO IT! WUR- I can stress enough how important it is to at a minimum get this unitl rebuit for accuracy and upgrade the diaghram...espetionally if you want to run 1 bar. the diaghram will tear if you drive hard...and welll.... NOT a Suggestion : EWUR/ Andial Fueler things....i cant speak to these specifically but theydogive you the ability to control fuel pressures and increase enrichment and delay enrichment...kindoflike combining ADJ WUR with RPM Solenoid....with morecomplexity....butthey do not increase fuel over the limits of the fuel head...as they still deliver the fuel through the fuel head... RPM Solenoid- best bang for the buck and easy to install.. Headers....dont get too crazy...some sound better, some deliver a better boost signal to the waste gate....but they all work..I have Fabspeed.. if you can afford it and wait...RarelyL8 or Turbo Kraft are the standard. IC- not only will you save weight...but you will improve cooling the charge..I have a fabspeed....I think Turbo Kraft is the standard...I dont think a K27 / CIS car needs a dual bay...I say long neck over shorty....because 965 elbow with DV valve 965 Stye Elbow- remove that slide valve DV unit above the intake. It weighs 30 lbs and is probably not working, Waste Gate....get rid of the OEwastegate. A Tial is cheap insurance Diverter Valve- if you run higher boost or a GT35r...you might start getting some closed throttle compressor surge...I added a SYNAPSE DV....and it responds much faster.. Exhaust....big weight savings..imporvement in sound...nicer aesthetic and reduced back flow. I use a ZORK....I think the RarelyL8 Hooligan is the standard. Hands down....personal choise. AIR BOX....listen...I use a small airfilter...I dont think it adds much of anything...maybe it hurts a little....but if you arein the middle of modding the car and tuning the WUR...you willget exhausted removing all that stuff. I have no ac and no airbox....I canget to WUR in a second.... Euro Fuel Head / Fuel Lines /Injectiors....if you have a pre smog or ROW car..you probably have this...if you have a US 86 -89 you dont...you may need to send you fuel head to CIS FLowtech to add more fue.. This can be done incrementally to mach HP requirements.....max flow is likely not needed unless you have a GT35 or ported heads and cams... CAMS....the stock cams are pretty tame..guys have great success with SC or 964. GT2or custom grinds from Elgin or Webcam for example could help further tailor then engine....but for a stock motor...I think its a waste unless you care doing the engine. high lift cames with head work and a big turbo can let the motor live in a holenew zipcode...witout losing too much low end TQ. Old turbo were already laggy ( 3LDZ /7006) but the 7200 helped to improve that...but when paired to stock cams...they are done well before 6K. Gearing....there is no dounbt that mechanical leverage is an essential princepal to using the power and torgue of the motor....and manufacturers ,race teams and hot rodders choose gearing for a variety of reasons....Manufcturers are about compromise between cost,efficiency, reliability and perfoemance, etc , where race teams care about performance and reliability to a point of completing the event and well Hot Rodders .....who knows what drives those nut Swapping to an 8:41 Ring and Pinion wakes the car up...1st gear becomes a stump puller, you live in 2 and 3 legal spirited to driving and 4 is a strong gear sometimes annoying on the highway at 75 mph cruise.... A G5O box in the 930 or 964 gave you same final gearing in 1-4 as you you get in the stock 4 speed with 8:41 RP swapwith the added beauty of an Overdrive 5th.....but thats $$$$ swap right there. WIth the improved spool of a 7200 Raptor...I dont think a RP swap is necessary or even desireable for most people....unless you are really a hot rodder and you are happy to trade performance for comfort.....and if you have ahigh rev set up with heads, Rod bolts, cams etc....then you can run the car in the 6000 plus RPM band and have lowend grunt and same terminal speeds in each gear ( at higher RPM) I am gonna stop at HEADS ( mostly because I am not an ENGINE EXPERT and mine are done andmy buddies are not and we have similar mods.. ) ....if you are doing a top end...bump to 3.4 and port the heads to atleast Carrera spec...or bigger! If you are doing a motor and trans.......than plan it and get the goods....if you are not a traditionalist.. And if you have CIS and you need more fuel......there is the 7th Injector!! |
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Thanks FT....my car is a 79 pre smog car built in Sep 1979. As you stated it never had Lambda and the Lambda port is plugged. I will double check with Larry and Dale to make sure something wasnt missed butI am assuing the FV is externally plummed to FH and there is nothing in the INSIDE per se that would restrict flow...So thanks for bringing that up. Maybe Brian Bodhart knows that answer....I bought that 007 FH from Rarelyl8 might be a little more to squeeze from the rind! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665238705.png |
The modified -145 USA FD is capable of flowing more fuel than the -037 Euro FD when both are adjusted to the max setting. The frequency valve is eliminated when the -145 is modified.
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As I thought....but good to verify. thanks. If you recall I traded in the Euro for the modified Lambda unit....the modified lambda definitely made a difference. thanks.... |
Some good points above. I follow your build on IG and watching you chase perfection with CIS is interesting.
I'm definitely glad I opted for no data logging, because I would probably be chasing the same White Rabbit. I run the same turbo and think it's worth every penny. The car is so smooth and lineal when accelerating. I will note I had the factory air box off for about a year while I was tuning. I got sick of the "hoot" sound and reinstalled the mail box. Despite the debate my expierence is there was a definite minute change in the AFR to the rich side, turbo lag increased a little and the butt dyno said I lost a little low end. But It's not a track car and I'm ok with all that to not hear that intake noise. |
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I know I am being compulsive and a little OCD...but I am in the rabbit whole and I dont want to bail just yet. I almost called TK to order the EFI parts this am.....but I am close... I might put the mailbox back in once I am done. Until then, the less I have to remove the better.....that part gets old fast! I should have stayed with the previous Flowtech settings on the fuelhead and added the Electronic Boost Controller taper. I would be done with 1 bar. Maxing out the fuel head last month di what I was warned...morefuel everywhere. So I had to raise the boost a little to get perfect 11.2-11.8 to 5700...but that brought me back to same lean condition @6000+. 1.2 bar is addicting! Might do the EBC now and taper back to get those AFR in line @6k + .....Feels compelled to get this7th inj going. I found a bosch high Z shortie 420cc that is being tested at 100 psi....if it is good I will install that in a billet case . I enjoy the tinkering...thanks for checking in |
I'm not going to dive in to this memory_lane but IIRC I controlled a frequency valve with AIC1@lambdaport and had fuel for holset40super@1.4 bar. I had a thread over it and people said it could not be done that way? Still ahve two AIC1 units as spares if I ever want to go back to CIS.
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I shared this on another thread...OCCUMS RAZOR
I think I found issue......My pumps are only seeing 11.5V at idle and 11.7-11.8 WOT. You can see in the photo of the data log that the alt is charging the battery to 13.4V and the rear pump is seeing almost 2V less.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.jpg That is not gonna cut it ....and likely the real issue I have been chasing...no matter what I did I was going lean over 5900 RPM. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.PNG I ran another pump flowtest on the return line and I am getting 2050cc /30s I am running an updated 90A alt / internal regulator, Red Top Odyssey AGM, the Adapt Motorsports ATO fuse panel and I did the updated fuel pump DIY where i ran fused 10g marine wire from battery to each relay. The issue has to from the relay to the pump....?? dunno. you can see the FP drops form 6.5b /95psito 5.8 bar / 85psi on WOT. FLowtech says the PSI drop is normal beause of type of push valve regulator in the head....but the real issue is flow rate at WOT and 11.5V http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.jpg I am looking at a voltage booster like the Kenny BEll Boost a Pump... https://kennebell.net//wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Kenne-Bell-Boost-A-Pump-Theory-Explained.pdf or replacing the whole wire curcuit powering the pump with new relays....but that seems very difficult and likely an over the winter thing. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.jpg I decided to tap into the CSV and drive it off the SplitSecond AIC unit and the AFR curve at 1 bar is livable to 6k. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665932859.jpg I rewrote the MAP controlling the CSV and increased amount of time it will fire.... Next week I should have my Seimens DEKA 42lb shortie which can operate at 90-100 PSI ....but I probably wont need it once I fix the voltage... https://siemensdeka.com/product/42lbh-siemens-deka-high-impedance-short-style-with-ev1-connector-fi11420-37-5mm/ https://www.alkydigger.net/product/EIH-8.html https://splitsec.com/product/aic1-g2h-gauge-pressure-2-hi-z-additional-injector-controller |
I was digging around for something and came across this 7th injector. I vaguely recall which car it came from but seem to remember installing a factory boost sensor in place of this injector. Anyhow, for interest sake added pictures. The part number is Bosch 0 280 150 036. A quick web search shows various old car applications, 48 lb per hour at 3 bar. This would equate to supporting an added 87 hp based on .55 lb/hp/hr. Probably capable of a little more at 90 psi but I hear it's not a linear increase, and has diminishing returns.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666051255.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666051255.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666051255.jpg |
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