the wur should only have power when the fuel pumps are running i'm assuming the aar is the same. as they work in conjunction with each other. they only power up when your fuel sensor plate switch is made or the plug is disconnected.

also do you have rebuilt adjustable wur??

Yep, both of those run off the rear-most fuel pump relay

I had similar issues when I first bought my 78 non turbo and my first CIS fueled car, when I went to inspect the source of the issue I found that the wire for the thermal time sensor was broken within the insulation but visually was intact. After replacing that section of wiring the over rich hot start issue was rectified.

May not apply at all to your situation but it may be helpful info for you or someone else.

to clarify the answer several have given you, there's a switch in the AFM that senses the air flow sensor plate is not at rest. The assumption is it's not at rest because of air flow, which is reasonable except if you crash and you're upside down I suppose.

Anyway, once that airflow sensor plate moves the fuel pumps and WUR power up. Or, if you disconnect the sensor as posters have mentioned.

Thank you all for the input of ideas. I am chasing it and eliminating pieces day by day.
So here is the update as of today.

Cleaned both fuel pumps relays, pins and sockets.
WUR checks out today, 2.5 bar cold after 5 minutes 3.8 bar and remains there
Residual pressure is good, after 45 minutes, holding around 1.8 bar, stays there for hours.
AAR checks out, takes about 2.5 minutes for it to close off.

Car starts up today and runs great. Ran the car for 30 minutes, never missed a lick.
Restarted the car right back up and it was good.

Waited about 30 minutes and restarted the car and it was fat and popping when you rev it.
While it was running like ****, excuse my language, I unplugged the relay for the rear pump and the car condition did not change. Un plugged the relay for the front pump and the condition did not change but you could hear a wine/buzz coming from the rear pump and the rpms sped up about 50 rpms, not sure what that was about.

I have a new O2 sensor that I have already purchased that I am going to install tomorrow but not much left to check. I have not unplugged the AFM yet, I guess that is on tomorrow's list.

It sure sounds like it is heat related but is what seems so weird about it, the heat does not seem to effect it while running from the initial startup just after it sits for a while, after the initial startup.

Once again guys thank you for the ideas.

Rivet, Did your rich restart condition go away after driving for a bit or did it remain? The thermal time sensor only runs the cold air jet, correct? If not, what else does this switch trigger? It is closed when cold and open when hot correct?

Did you ever state the year and equipment on this car?
To be clear your popping is from the exhaust? Muffler or zork? Does it have any emissions junk left on it?

i had a similar issue just a few months ago with the car starting perfect cold and running prefect until i shut it down. After the car it sat for about 10 or 15 minutes the car would not start but sitting for a few minutes the car world restart fine. The coil was the problem it turns out that while the car was running it would draw cold air over the coil to keep it cool , once i shut it off the residual heat coming from the motor and the IC would eventually over heat the coil and the car would not start. . i replaced the coil problem was solved. possibly yours is not fully breaking down its just partially failing and giving a insufficient spark. i only noticed mine because i eventually installed permanent fuel gauges so i could monitor system and control pressures at all time and eventually ruled out a fuel issue. but before i had installed the permanent gauges, like you i was convinced it was a fuel issue.
Do you have a spare coil or any friend local you can borrow a coil from, to test? 911 and 930 coil are interchangeable.
Hopes this helps
Regards Ned

You might be on to something here. This am, the car did not want to start, took three tries and I had open up the air idle mixture screw 2 1/2 turns to get the motor to stumble for about 10 seconds and then it revved up to about 800 rpms, which is about 200 rpms below where I have it set for my AC. Tried to rev the car and pops and spits and the pops are through the intake not the exhaust and is FAT.

Another thing that I noticed today, per attached picture, I think that my control pressure might be a little too high. after about 2 1/2 minutes, 3.9bar, sounds high to me but I do not believe that this is the issue. Cold the pressure is around 2.6 bar.

I turned on my key and listened for a wine from my CDI, no noise out of it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1723217570.jpg

I don't see anything seriously out of line with your control pressures, but I don't recall what your system pressure is. Note: 2.5 minutes may not be long enough to drop your stated 3.9 bar pressure closer to 3.6 where it should be. At this point I would say look elsewhere than the WUR.
Now...having to open your idle mixture screw 2.5 turns...wow, letting a lot of air in post throttle body, which might say you're dealing with too much fuel. Others have mentioned the thermo time switch injector....unplug that bugger and see what happens.
I'm still not convinced that you don't have a CDI or coil issue, since you mentioned several hours post shutdown for the car to start. That time frame is not WUR related in my mind.
How's the condition of your turbo up pipe and IC o'rings? Any leaks there could result in an excessively rich condition as soon as boost begins to build...allowing some of that metered air to escape. But not so noticeable at no-load idle.
Just flapping my lips and doing a mind dump. You've probably already been down that mental road.

Hey guys , thanks for all of the tip and ideas.

I reached out to Bob Ashlock and spoke to him for about 10 minutes. He thinks that I have covered just about everything short of the CDI and coil. He told me that if I had one of the Bosch coils that were manufactured in Brazil, this was more than likely the issue....guess what my coil was made in Brazil with the aluminum case.

I shipped off both items to him for testing. He agrees that he thinks that it is an ignition issue and eventually the coil of the CDI will completely fail. The CDI was also a Permatune unit which he was not that keep about. So guys hopefully he will find the issues with one of the items and I can get back to driving around like a mad man and get off of this forum. Fingers crossed!!!!

Here is something simple you could check (when you get the coil etc back).
Pull the yellow wire off the starter solenoid. See if you still have the hot start problem.
Mine was doing something similar. The smell of raw fuel was a clue.
The TTS has failed. The engine starts just fine cold without the CSV right now. Until I can get to the TTS.
Alan

Alan L, Thank you for your tip. There is some information that I just did not list once I thought that I identified the ignition system for the issue.

When the motor was running poorly at the restarted, I pulled off the plug for the cold start jet to see if this helped with the popping and lack of power as well as the rich situation. It made no difference in this condition. I really hope that what Bob Ashlock told me about the Bosch coils made in Brazil being junk is the cause of all of this.

Bob, should have these items in his hands for testing this Tuesday, so fingers crossed, by next weekend, I should be terrorizing the streets again.

Well the saga continues. Coil and CDI tested out to be fine, so here are the items that have checked out to be non-issues.
Both fuel pumps work
Both fuel pump relays are good
Relay connections cleaned and are good
System pressure is good
Control pressure is good
Distributor cap is good, cleaned contacts on cap as well as rotor tip
Spark plugs and wires are good
WUR checks out a bit high but seem to do it's thing
AAR closed as it should
when running bad, I unplugged the cold start jet and had no effect
Coil checks out good
CDI checks out good
Ground straps at the coil are good

The car now has the same issue when cold so whatever it is, it is getting worse and now not just a heat signature issue.

When the CDI and Coil arrive back, I am going to get it running and see if manipulating the green wire has any effect as one post mentioned something about that. I have attached a picture of what looks to be some handy work of someone at Porsche North Houston, may be not, may be factory but looks kind of hokie.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1723588575.jpg

What an ass-kicker. Well, the green wire is good preventative maintenance anyway at this point. The only-when-hot presentation may have thrown us off a bit. Timmy2 on this Pelican can set you up with the replacement wiring and connectors. I’m out of ideas. Have you left your fuel pressure gauge on and ran the car? I’m still curious to know what the pressure are during the issue when it’s been restarted.

I have run it with the gauges still hooked up and there is no change between when it run poorly or good. I am stumped. Since it appears to be getting worse because now it will do it cold as well as hot, I am hoping that this bug whatever it is, kills the faulty device and makes it a non-start issue and then the culprit will reveal itself.

The back firing and popping when it runs bad, is back through the intake not the exhaust. It has to be ignition, but I can't find it and there is nothing left to check on the ignition side unless there is a device hiding that I have not found.

Could it possibly be in the fuel injection housing/distributor?

Bad leaking injector/injectors?

My coil tested perfect when cold and whole running . It would fail when it got excessively hot after the car was shut off.

I am guessing you have swapped another coil into the car - since yours is away for testing.
So here is another simple test - for the green wire circuit - since ignition seems a suspect.
You need to measure the ohms across the two green wire pins in the plug that goes to your CDI box. The green wire is a co ax, so feeds two pins at the CDI plug. That circuit is attached to a pick up coil in the dizzy, and that is what the plug at the base of the dizzy connects to. If that circuit is good from memory, you should have 600 ohms across the two pins on the plug.
I cannot remember exactly which two pins they are - they are top and bottom on one side of the plug. A bit of a search here (or others better memory) will find that answer. If you have something significantly difefrent to 600 ohms, you have found the problem.
A simple test.
Alan

a leaking cold start can still leak even if you unplug the power to it. i had to remove the fuel line and put a plug at the fuel distributer to total rule it out a leaking cold start injector . simple .. do you have a wide band sensor for your AFR . if not relatively inexpensive and a great trouble shooting tool and a piece of mind to see in real time what's going on. pretty sure that the norm for the grounding shield for the green wire . looks much better than mine .