Tippy's harebrained idea....A2W intercoooler conversion Carrera 3.2
 

During the time I was looking to add 3" aluminum tubing quick disconnect couplers to the current cast-tank Treadstone air-to-air intercoooler (to make removing and reinstalling a breeze getting rid of silicone hoses and couplers like Turbokraft works of art IC's), I was hitting a wall to make the connection to the factory 3.2 TB location, requiring a lot of aluminum tubing fab work to make all these crazy bends and angles (outlet of IC needs to make a nasty 120* bend).

Bummer....

Disgruntled and poking around the webs, I drifted off into reading about air-to-water intercoolers that I hadn't researched for many, many years. When I read the science behind them, I understood they are much more efficient than A2A (up to 20x's more efficient) and the packaging is much more compact (cores can be much smaller than A2A cores).................and the gears in my head started turning.......hey, I will finally be able to reach all the sparkplugs without removing the IC, I will be able to see the entire motor, etc...........this was a huge motivation for me alone.

I........am.........a.........glutton.........for. ........punishment

So, I ignored my family, my job, and friends to make this happen (ok, not really, but it felt that way). It had consumed my thoughts for weeks. There was so much "engineering" to figure out, but I was determined to make it happen.....

I saw how perfect the packaging would work in our cramped engine compartment, and I knew I needed to make it work. The intercooler configuration and connections went smooth as Barry Whites' voice and literally had it mocked up with various off-the-shelf parts I had lying around in 5 minutes. No joke.
This brought me lots of excitement, but the heat exchanger brought me down to reality, really fast.

This was going to be a lot of engineering, calculating, and dumb luck to make work, and boy was it ever. Trying to orientate the heat exchanger (clearing other components and allowing smooth sweeps of water hose connections) took mocking up dozens of ways and redesigning the brackets to the wing in at least 3 different ways before finding the magic configuration that met all the criteria.

This took a couple of weeks itself........

So, here is my short story and journey implementing an A2W IC (seller claims IC core good to 600 hp and 1200 hp for the heat exchanger - I am skeptical, but will be the guinea pig) into a Carrera 3.2 (3.4).

Behold the bane of my existence......in photos.

P.S. - for the record, I did NOT have to drill, hack, or modify a single part of the car from before. That is a huge success in my book.

Before A2A IC and 1st mockup of A2W IC


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762045673.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762045673.jpg

Had to relocate the coilpack from the passenger intake half to the driver. And then I discovered hooking up the idle valve was going to be breeze like it was meant to be. The 3.2 idle valve came up right in a perfect spot in between the intercooler piping and I simply grabbed a 5/8" heater hose with a 90* bend from FLAPS to make the connection. Tube the idle valve is pulling air from shown is a 2-bolt style BOV flange bought off the shelf I simply made a mating plate for and tapped for the 5/8" barb and NPT connection.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762045974.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762045974.jpg

Drilled the 90* silicone coupler and added a 1/2" NPT port, then used a 3/8" NPT to 1/2" NPT bushing to thread in the GM Fast Response Inlet Air Temp sensor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046173.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046173.jpg

1st photo - Side profile shot showing how it will fit under a stock hood. Originally intended to get rid of wing for a sleeper look.
2nd photo - Showing the entire intercooler packaging how it would come off the engine. It is very light, albeit it does not look so.
3rd photo - Made a U-shaped cradle bracket with M10 bolts that eventually is bolted to intake boss (future post)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046342.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046342.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046342.jpg

3rd attempt at mounting the heat exchanger. This is a 12" x 12" x 2" thick radiator made for a 4-cylinder vehicle.

Here is where this may be genius, or just a pipe dream. The heat exchanger is right above the engine cooling fan, so it is TBD if this will suffice to cool off the radiator or not. I have an electric fan to add if it does not.

Will report back with datalogs from the EFI.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046548.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046548.jpg

Here is the intercooler mount I made. The U-shaped bracket is 2" wide, 1/8th" aluminum for lightness while the upright is 1" wide, 1/8" steel for strength.

On Carerra 3.2 intakes, there is an untapped boss I tapped with an M10 bottoming tap in the webbing between cylinders 4 and 5. Worked perfect.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762046772.jpg

Just some photos showing the final installation configuration (after weeks and many hours trying to figure out how to make this radiator fit under the wing without hitting anything on top of the motor).

I am very STOKED how this came out. It looks so good to me. What is not shown, is a live well pump (Rule 401) made for fishing boats that puts out 500 GPH of water flow running through the 3/4" heater hoses to the IC and radiator. It's a nice unit that has an impeller design that will allow junk to pass through without trashing the pump (plumbed behind the intercooler out of sight).

Hope it actually works good as I have read (doesn't get heat saturated easily in hot temps), but if it does, will cool off quickly.

Results are TBD, and again, I will report back results as soon as I get it on the road.

If you have made it this far, I plan on changing out all the worm type SS hose clamps on the motor with European smooth hose clamps and the IC hoses will get zinc coated spring clamps not shown in photos. Also, plan on wrapping the water hoses where they contact the wing for abrasion resistance and ensure the hoses tuck nicely as the wing is opened and close.

Remote radiator inline filler cap coming next so I can fill the system with distilled water and Water Wetter at the highest point of the heat exchanger system and start ENJOYING THE CAR AGAIN!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762047012.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762047012.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762047012.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762047012.jpg

Interesting

Fingers crossed.....:D

You'll get it done

Tippy, this is a huge accomplishment! I really dig the ingenuity and execution… does not look like a backyard hack by any means.
Very interested in how it works… do you have pre and post temp sensors?

Thank you! I don’t have pre and post, but during high-90 degree days recently, using an infrared gun showed 194F at the end of the turbo volute wall and something like 140-150F air (as best as I could read).

The old A2A IC would show around 10-15F over ambient at cruise.

Very exciting. I’ll be watching closely to see how it all works.

Nice work and installation, very clean looking. A2W can make for nice cool air charge. One thing I've wondering is with the compact size of the IC, do you wind up sacrificing charge face area? Basically, is there any impact to IC flow.

Hoping today I can properly fill with water with the remote inline filler.

Will report back.

That’s my thoughts too, but apparently the claim is since there are less passages and “heat sink” material in the flow paths, they lose far less boost than A2A.

I got on it last night (not fully filled with water) and it felt like top end was like before.

I ran water lines up both sides of the car to a front mount(fender mount) radiator. Would be nice to have placed a rad like yours but I'm also adding ac condensers.....

What size is yours? Was going to do the exact same.

I repurposed a Carrera cooler that I used on another engine that ran a bit hot. I cleaned it out good but we'll have to see if it works well enough. I may need another inline cooler or complete replacement down the road.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762198860.jpg
Here is my nearly finished install still partially dropped.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762198903.jpg

Got it.

I was thinking of using some straight 3/4" aluminum tubing to run down the length of the 964 skirts and then go back to heater hose to make the bends in the wheel wells.

This would provide additional cooling.

Heater hose and rubber screw hole clamps really made that job easy. brrrt! brrt! done. I did use the rocker area as well.

Very convenient

Some initial data points. Remote inline filler came in, but the fittings were too small in the ID. Was not going to restrict circulation, so did not install for this evening.

But, made an effort to fill system with water and probably got it 90% filled if I had to guess and did some driving to start seeing how this thing works.

___________________________________

61F ambient temp outside this evening.

Ice cold start and the air temp on the software was showing 75F.

Let it idle for a few minutes and the temp stayed dead steady at 75F. Hmmmm, is my IAT sensor dying? Drove through neighborhood and still showed 75F MAT.

That is weird. Motor is already over 200F head temp but MAT is showing 75F.

As I was driving outside the neighborhood on a 45 MPH road, I see it show 74..........73..........72..........71, etc. Interesting. Guess the air over the wing started to make the system get cooler even though the engine was getting warmer.

After about 5 minutes max of driving, engine is fully warm, it is reading 65F!

I noticed that if I downshifted and got the RPM up, the MAT would go down, too. The engine was pulling some air through the heat exchanger after all (remember, I do not have an electric fan on the heat exchanger right now).

Ok, this was pretty cool.

Now it's time for boost. Nailed 2nd to redline and see IIRC 71F. Not bad, but not great. Get into boost here and there and it's hitting the 80's. Hmmmmm, not sure the A2A would be 20+F over ambient at this point. Can't remember.

Drive some more and really tried a 3rd gear pull where it's in boost for a longer duration by doing 2nd to redline, then 3rd to redline. After I let off, I see 94F with a slow taper down to the 80's and then 70's.

So now that is 33F over ambient. Again, don't think I have any datalogs of the A2A ever coming close to that large of a differential.

Take it home, put in garage, and immediately open wing and test temps all over by hand. The heat exchanger, the intercooler, and the hoses were all very cool to the touch. That was pretty amazing.

Hmmmm, not sure what to think at this point. It ran like a raped ape, but it did before too with the A2A in similar ambient temps. Felt like the midrange may be better, but peak HP I can't tell if impacted or not.

Until I get into boost on a really hot TX day in the 100's, I am going to hold judgement.........

Check this out. "Coolant" temp is head temp showing 240F.

61F ambient outside temps, engine fully warm, no electric fan on heat exchanger, and seeing 65F manifold air temps doing 45 MPH down a road.

Not going to lie, kind of geeking out on that.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762232855.jpg

What is iirc again?
I’d be more curious of the water temperature after Intercooler and after the radiator.
Keep in mind that the turbocharged air is much hotter than ambient. I don’t remember what and it probably depends on many things but it’s a lot more than 30 degrees difference. From the turbo it’s pretty hot. I’d have to do some research to re familiarize myself with these things
Your rad probably won’t need a fan till hot summer and maybe not ever where it is at.
I am currently wondering about speed of water flow and whether slower might actually help or at least not be a problem in a system like this? Low form compared to higher flow rate? My water pump isn’t a high flow rate.

Is there even room for a slim fan on the radiator? Hard to get a idea and see from just the pictures. It would be interesting though to see if a fan even makes a difference or not when driving.

Wish DFW was closer to Austin, would love to be able to see the car in person. Maybe one of these days I'll finally finish collecting the parts I need for my efi/turbo swap on my '83 SC and have to make a road trip around the state in it with a Austin stop.

IIRC = if I remember correctly

Yeah, would take lots of testing see what flow rate is ideal, and even then, it would take PWM to regulate pump power and I’m not investing into another failure point.

It’s either going to fit the bill or not since my A2A is ready to go back on if needed. :)

Unfortunately, the slim one I bought won’t clear. But, I could build a shroud and offset it to the side to fit no problem.

But, I wanted to see how it performed being near the cooling fan to see if it was even needed at all

Ok, got a few days of data.

Remember, there is NO cooling fan on the heat exchanger.

The inlet air temps (IAT) have been dead consistently 20F over ambient at fully warm at cruise. All 3 days the same.

Boost is generally another 10F over that to around 13F.

So total is 30-33F over ambient temps (under 1.4 bar boost).

I have lots of datalogs from the air-to-air (good to 1300hp) but I don’t know what ambient temps the days were to do a direct comparo.

I do know I was only seeing 5F to 10F over cruise IAT in each log.

With that said, until I get a fan on this heat exchanger, I’ll hold judgement.

Stay tuned if you care ;)………………………. or not :)

Good job being analytical about this good data

Does it feel different or same as before with the power delivery?

It’s hard to know by the butt dyno.

If I had to guess, it feels punchier in the midrange (possibly due to supposed lower core restriction and cleaner bends) but may be a little less up top (rated for 600 HP but we know how that can go…..).

Overall, car still feels quick but I don’t have a Dyno sheet or the drag strip to compare.

Your latest data has me relearning (watching YouTube videos) on the subject. I still think it’s a better charge cooler for my situation. I live in a hot climate. And my need to remove the turbo tail.
It does seem odd the overall temp is higher than you saw with air2air. Maybe a system capacity thing? Do you have a tank you’re using? You might need to add more liquid capacity to the system.

Thanks

Yes, 3 things can be improved:

1. Mount heat exchanger in driver fender with an electric fan
2. Keep config now and add the cooling fan
3. Add a reservoir

The system currently only has ~1 gallon with no reservoir.

20f over ambient at cruise sounds high and 30f under boost sounds low! I’m sure my TK long neck runs hotter than that - it can be uncomfortable to touch at times after a shut down.
Sorry no hard data

4th day. 18-20F over ambient cruise, then 26F over ambient at 1.4 bar doing a longer 3rd gear pull.

The A2A would scalding hot to the touch too after a longer drive and shutdown.

I programmed to pull timing when it gets over I think like 150F and I’ve experienced that plenty. Takes awhile to get it cooled back off.

You saw that today with the liquid cooler?

No, was referring to the air-to-air getting heat saturated after shutdown.

Car loses a lot of power on a super hot day restart. Takes awhile for the IC to get back to normal.

Got it