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-   -   engine selection would it be better to get a 3.2 or a 3.6 (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/328646-engine-selection-would-better-get-3-2-3-6-a.html)

Larry_Ratcliff 02-04-2007 11:50 AM

engine selection would it be better to get a 3.2 or a 3.6
 
I have been giving a lot of thought to the converting of my car to a turbo. At first I was thinking that just getting a 3.2 carrera engine and turbo charging that but now I am starting to think that getting a 3.6 964 engine to start with would be a better place to start.

My goal is to have an engine that has plenty of power outside of the boost to make it easy to drive on the street. I was also thinking that the 964 engine is already twin plugged so really if you look at the price difference between the two engines the cost of twin plugging a 3.2 would bring them to about the same initial cost.

The 964 intake looks almost identical to the 3.2 carrera ... and I am thinking the added displacement is a very nice bonus.

The one thing that I thought might be a problem is finding the correct size turbo for a single turbo 3.6 application. It seems that most 3.6 applications were all twin turbo ... with the exception of 1 year (I could be wrong on this point).

To narrow my question I guess I would really like to know advantages or disadvantages of starting with a 3.6 vs a 3.2. I would also like to know of available turbos for the 3.6 vs the 3.2.
Lastly, I am guessing that if a single turbo set up for the 3.6 is limited that the twin turbo would add an order of magnitude to the cost to the turbo set up. In other words would it make more sense to just buy a stock 3.6 TT engine vs trying to turbo charge a N.A. 3.6.

The method behind my madness is that it seems that most people that buy stock turbo engines end up changing the exhaust, turbo, fuel injection etc... and the premium that has to be paid for the turbo engine is pretty high so I am trying to get the words of wisdom from the people who have already been down this road.

thanks in advance for your responses.
Larry Ratcliff

WydRyd 02-04-2007 01:44 PM

Yup, BTDT and would never turn back ;)

I vote for the 3.6 as a better platform... easier to extract more HP at less boost. It also has the nice twin plugged heads/ignition already there. No need to spend a few $K getting that done on the 3.2 :cool:

You can single turbo the 3.6... it just takes a bit more clever routing of the charge air pipe around the twin dizzy to make it work, but it's not impossible. Just use a good fabricator to make you the pipe ;)

It'd be much cheaper than a twin setup that's for sure.

Depending on how much boost and power you want to make, you will be able to match a turbo to your application. If you are after sub-600H power levels, the GT35R is an awesome turbo and on that 3.6, it will spool freakishly fast :D Of course you have other options, like KKK, PTE, Turbonetics etc...

3.6 pistons have a lot of meat on the piston crown... have them machined down for a lower C/R and boost away ;)

NathanUK 02-04-2007 02:43 PM

3.6 !

Get the rod bolts upgraded to raceware or ARP though if you are going over 400bhp at the crank.

WydRyd 02-04-2007 02:50 PM

No argument from me... DEFINITELY get ARP fasteners!

Depending on how much boost you want to run, whilst you're in there, you might want to consider Nerosisting the heads/liners for best sealing over 1.2bar of boost :cool:

PM me if you want more info.

Larry_Ratcliff 02-04-2007 07:24 PM

I noticed that powerhaus has a conversion for the 3.6. Has anyone used them. I have seen a few cars with powerhaus intercoolers. I just did not know if it would be worthwhile to buy a complete turbo conversion kit.

Larry_Ratcliff 02-04-2007 07:26 PM

Would it be worth it to buy pauter or carillo rods or are the 3.6 rods good enough with the arp fasteners?

WydRyd 02-04-2007 07:39 PM

If you are raising the rev limit way beyond the factory setting, then yes, it's worth upgrading your rods too, but the 930 rods have proven to hold up very well to big HP application with good quality ARP fasteners. Just don't go missing gear shifts too often and over-revving :eek:

turbocarrera 02-04-2007 08:14 PM

I would love a 3.6 - so easy to get a 3.8 or 3.9!

Larry_Ratcliff 02-04-2007 08:36 PM

Ok I am getting fairly sold on the idea of using a 3.6. I am even considering using the 3.6 that is already in my car now. The engine that is in my car is a 3.6 out of a 96 993 but has the 95 plastic intake. Can the plastic intake be boosted?

At first I was going to build a turbo engine for the 74 then put this engine in my 67. However, based on the research I have been doing I can see that this is not going to be a nominal endeavour financially so I am thinking to sell my 67 to pay for it.

Due to the level of rebuilding that is going to have to take place I still be better off to sell my 23K mile engine with the SSI's and sport muffler that is all set up for an early car installation and buy the 964 engine. I am just thinking that I could pick up a 964 engine for around 5500 - 6K where as I gave 12K for the 993 engine + a boat load for the SSI's for a 3.6 + almost a grand for the muffler :(

On the other hand the 96 engine has the big ports etc... I could buy a set of 3.8 turbo P&C, carillo rods and boost away if the plastic intake will take it.

WydRyd 02-04-2007 08:50 PM

The 993 engine has smaller exhaust ports I believe.

Also, the 993 pistons cannot be machined down.. only the 964 pistons can be, to achieve ~8.25:1 C/R.

My vote? Get the 964 motor ;)

It only costs $20-$25 per piston to have shaved. They should also be balanced after the dome is trimmed &
Valve pockets would probaby be an extra $90-$100 ;)

Jeff Alton 02-04-2007 09:25 PM

3.2 and 964 rods are the same and both use the smaller rod bolt. Like others have said, ARP is cheap insurance if you are in there already.

Cheers

Larry_Ratcliff 02-04-2007 09:30 PM

WydRyd the port sizes on the 964 engine is 41.5 int 38 exhaust. Valve size was 49, 42.5. The 96 engine I have has 43 int 39 exhaust 50 int 43.5 exhaust. The big reason for this is b/c in 96 the engine had a varioram intake on it thus they could run bigger valves and ports. The reason my car has a 95 plastic intake on it is because it was initially slated for a 914 installation but I bought it when the other guy had a change of heart.

However, your point of the savings on pistons is well noted. Machine work on 6 pistons vs buying a whole new set would be a ~1K savings.

Since I am new to boost from any source I was wondering how much of an advantage the larger ports and valve sizes would be. For that matter would a varioram intake make a good turbo intake?

I know that I am throwing out a lot of questions at this point it is just so I dont wind up wishing I would have done it differently when it is all said and done.

Thanks for your responses,
Larry Ratcliff

89turbocabmike 02-04-2007 09:58 PM

Larry, I'm currently building a 3.6 single turbo. There are lots of options depending on how much power you want. Stronger rod bolts are a must. I have been advised by a few builders to avoid boosting the stock 964 crank, but I think that if you build a mild motor you might be fine. The best options are using a 3.2/3.3 crank for 3.5L, or the GT3R watercooled crank which is fully counter-weighted and cross-drilled. I'm going with a new GT3R myself as the net cost after selling my 964 crank will be less than $700. There are lots of great turbos out there, so that shouldn't be a problem. Selling a car should cover most of your build expense;)

89turbocabmike 02-04-2007 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry Ratcliff

Since I am new to boost from any source I was wondering how much of an advantage the larger ports and valve sizes would be. For that matter would a varioram intake make a good turbo intake?


They'd be a great advantage for getting really high horsepower! The varioram intake though is quite tall from my recollection and would make it more difficult to get a good size intercooler in place I think.

Of course you'll also have to decide on an aftermarket ECU, lots of choices there.

WydRyd 02-04-2007 10:36 PM

Larry, you really need to chat with Todd Knighton as he's done many of these conversions on Varioram motors. This is where my knowledge ends as I have no experience with those motors.

You'd probably need a Protomotive 993 ECU for a Varioram motor to take full advantage of that capability... Todd is your man ;)


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