Is there a better year 930
 

Ok, so I didn't get shot with the blown engine concept. So... I am considering a turbo.... maybe 80 ish vintage but the horror stories are all over the place. Number 1... can a normal Joe do a tune up on one of these? Used to do my 67 911S valves and tune up all the time. Does ANYONE use there 930 as a daily driver or is this concept just plain crazy? Is there a better year for reliability or ease of labor (working on them)? One that is known for it's reliability and performance?

Sorry for all the questions you guys have seen a zillion times but I am striking out on a 3.2 M-491. And just for the record.... I like the M-491's BECAUSE they have the better suspension, brakes and looks coupled with reliability. If I could get a Turbo that would fit the bill as a quality daily driver AND it's easy enough for a guy to do some of the minor stuff I would have to consider it.

Dave

Most people that own 930s seem to eventually start doing a lot of the stuff themselves because it is no more difficult than your 1967. They are all equally reliable. As with any old car you are going to have minor annoyances along the way but if you use your car as a daily driver it will run better than if you let it sit in the garage. My 930 starts instantly after a day but starts a little slower after a week or two, they like to be used. You can get any part for these cars through Porsche or the aftermarket, and you have a wonderfully slippery slope of tuning possibilities that never ends, or even seems to slow down. Want 500 hp? No problem. Or leave it the way it is.

But you will need to take it to a European car shop for major work because the average joe won't even know where the engine is located!

The engine will be reliable if you check it carefully before buying. It's little crap like the air conditioning and so on that sometimes need maintenance.

There is nothing like a 930. I grew up with always having new cars so I have only really ever done an oil change on my own. On this car I couldnt believe how easy it was to work on. I have already dropped the engine, completely tore it down to the case with no problems, and did it by myself with the help of this board, waynes books, and a local porsche guys tools and tips. The one thing you have to remember, and was told to me is Take Your Time. Patience is a virtue with these cars. and you really want to work on it yourself to save from the infamous P-Tax, euro mechanics charge you.

Ah yes, we get charged serious P-Tax here in Australia too! It's just a given. If you can afford a Porsche, you can afford to pay 3-4x more for mechanical work... it's total B.S if you ask me :mad:

This is why I revert to doing all the simple stuff myself. I'd like to get to the point where I can drop the motor, do a tear-down and rebuild it myself. Now THAT would be an achievement! :cool:

IMO, you should turbo your M491. You already have the Carrera EFI and 930 bottom end and G50. You evenhave the 930 brakes ;)

He stated a 1985 M491, no G50.

Ooops! My bad :)

Your question regarding reliability, not bad. These cars are getting up in age but with proper care, they can last forever. Deferred maintenance is the downfall of most of them (that didn't leave the road tail-end first). Can they be driven regularly with any degree of civility? Yes. Will you? It's tempting. All those wonderful noises, honk, snort, spool, decel - whooshhh! You just gotta sample it on occasion. Think of it as 80 to 300+ HP in one atmosphere. 'kind of Jekyl & Hyde-ish. Rumor has it they get pretty good gas mileage if you stay off the boost. I can assure you I'll never know.

well put 930turbo!

A 930 is not significantly any less reliable than an SC or Carerra of the same vintage. Longevity is completely up to you. Fuel mileage is in the 20's when in proper tune and off boost. Stay at or below 300RWHP and 0.8bar and the engine will live a long productive life.
Parts prices are more expensive. Go fast goodies are much more expensive. The daily smile on your face is priceless.

Great info
 

Ok... I am getting good information but the one thing I am not getting is this: (i look to see what year each poster has trying to see if there is a common year) Is there a known year that is known for it's balance between power and reliability? I have heard that the 78-79's are big on H.P. and anything 82-86 is a euro. 87-89 have the G50 and so on. POsitive and negitives? Any?

Dave

No negatives that I can think of :D

The earlier '78-'79 models didn't have the luxuries of the 80's models, therefore they are a tad lighter I believe?!?

Re: Great info
 

78-79 930 have the Euro CIS fuel system and exhaust, even in the US. The later US cars don't.

Only the '89 930 had the 5-speed box.

I thought that the motor on the 91-92 965 is pretty much a 930, but the body/suspension/interior is different, whereas the Turbo 2 (93 on?) makes more power due to revised intercooler, turbo, doesn't this have a Motronic instead of CIS?

And then there's the 3.6 turbo...

Earlier cars are lighter; think that crash protection equipment is at least part of this.

Probably more important to find a good example, unless there's a specific reason to get fixated on a particular year.

I don't think they're unreliable as daily drivers, just possibly a little too, uh, intense for some people's taste...

A blown M491 G50 car is a cheap route to a lot of things that add up fast if you start with a 4-speed 930 and want to end up with big power.

But you may find that even a stock or mild 930 feels like insane power and you don't want much more.

It must have been absolutely shattering in the 70's when most ordinary cars had much less power. It's still very exhilarating today.

I have a 1992 Turbo, and it is my primary driver when its not snowing or I am on the motorcycle.

I am no expert, but with the exception of the intercooler, the 3.3 L motor is my car is basically the same as in the earlier cars. The transmission I belive is the same G50 as in the 89 930's. The suspension is different as the 91 and 92 use coilovers on all four corners. I know I have read up on the brakes, but there are folks that know a lot more about them than me, so I won't even discuss them.

The biggest and most obvisous differences are the bumpers and rockers are different, the interior is a little different, but not much. The AC in my works better, which could be a concern if you are daily driving it.

The 94 Turbo is a whole different beast, and command a pretty hefty price difference.

From a daily driver stand point, my 92 has been pretty heavily modified, I have actually dialed back some of the performance so that the engine will live longer. It had 1.1 bar worth of springs in the WG, and I went down to .8, etc.

My commute is 60 miles each way, and I get about 20 mpg, and actually look forward to my drive.

I say go for it.

Bill

oops forgot the picture. I mean how can you not love to look at this as you walk up to your car to get into it to go home?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1175711439.jpg

Economically your best bet is a '78/9.
You can purchase a good one in the mid $20Ks. They are uncomplicated allowing you to do the work yourself which builds confidence in using it as a daily driver.

'89s sell in the $40Ks now and C2Ts are even more expensive and complex. All have basically the same 3.3L CIS engine accept the '94 C2T which has a 3.6L CIS engine.

the best year turbo is the one in your driveway

I have to touch my car every time I walk by it in the garage (my brand new daily driver gets the outdoor treatment), Kiss it before I got to bed, and many times while sitting in my lazy boy watching tv I feel the urge so I go and sit in it. am I addicted or what?

P.S. I have the best year turbo b/c she is all mine!

Okay, let's be specific:

The 1976 model weighs 2635 pounds and has manual steering and brakes. That's the car I have, and the brakes are normally upgraded to the later 78 and onward turbo rotors and calipers by most owners. I love the manual simplicity of the '76, and the light weight. Manual brakes feel good when you set them up good.

The 1977 adds some power assist braking and about 30 pounds of weight, but it is pretty nice to get the boost assisted brakes if you like that. It has a couple small refinements.

The 1978 adds over two hundred pounds and a 3.3 torque monster of a motor compared to the previous 3.0 litre, to compensate. The engine is moved further back in the engine bay by an inch or two, and sometimes people try and squeeze it forward again, but a lot of people don't really notice any handling difference, especially with some good modern tires. What I like about my 3.0 litre is the crankshaft comes out of the 2.7 and therefore is very fast spinning, also the flywheel is lightweight and the '78 and on often go back to a lightweight flywheel as a performance mod. My car already has that built in! On the other hand, the 3.3 litre can be very easily modified right up to 500 hp, whereas the 3.0 can be modified that way but is better suited to be modified as a sporty, quick revving high rpm motor as opposed to a torque monster like the 3.3. You can make a 3.0 litre just as highly modified as a 3.3, and keep it's free revving character, but the 3.3 really fits extreme horsepower applications well.

The '78 and onward have the better brakes and bigger engine and tea tray spoiler instead of the whale tail so that they can fit a intercooler. I am not personally aware of any 'safety' or 'crash' related features that where added outside of the brakes. I could be wrong.

The late 80 models have bigger stock wheels and I believe the fuel management is more sophisticated, I could be wrong here but I think they went to O2 sensors and what not.

If you buy an older model you can often register it as an antique, although not normally if you mention that you are going to commute in the car. There are usually many benefits from running an antique, such as no inspections required, at least in a lot of states.

I bought my 1976 set up a certain way, but if I was going to start with a totally stock 930 and than build it from there I would get a 78 or 79. Lighten it up with fiberglass front and rear bumpers, get a better intercooler, and an easily modified engine. Get it registered as an antique. Enjoy.

All great information above - good stuff guys.

The only thing I have to add is that Porsche never added Motronic EFI into their turbo cars until the 993TT I believe. All previous Turbo's were CIS injected.

This is interesting as other car manufcaturers were running more sophisticated EFI systems in their turbo cars o the same era. Anyone know why Porsche delayed adding EFI until mid the 90's?

Even RUF went with a Motronic EFI in their mid 80's CTR conversions! The 962's were even Motronic based motors (Motronic V1.7 I believe). WHY didn't Porsche do it?

LOL, you are not alone!