Beating Smog test with performance mods
 

I own 87 Turbo.

A few questions,

1) How can i upgrade exhaust in CA? Will the headers need to had CARB # for approval in CA?
2) Turbo. Same questions as above.
3) Chip or altering CIS system to mirror euro version?

If these things are finished, will I pass smog.

How does one go about purchasing upgrades with special # for CA. on the part?

Thanks. Please direct me to other threads if this one has been answered. I could not find what I was looking for in search.

Bryan

I bought an 87 930 that the PO told me had gone thru smog only months earlier and had the sheets to prove it. He must have known the smog guys kuz when I took it in, it flunked. It had no cat and an aftermarket muffler. I ended up having to find and buy a factory cat and muffler....put it back to stock, then run it thru and finally passed smog. The guys who have the cars that are 25 years old and older are exempt...but you have to get it thru.

If you are having a bad time getting it to pass, give me a shout and I'll loan you my factory muffler and cat to get you through the hard part....then you dont' have to worry for two years.

Chet (wonderful 930S guy who died earlier this year) did me the same favor, so I'm passing on the favor. I see you're in Fresno....I''m in Elk Grove....just south of Sacto'.

Chuck























\\

Thanks
 

Chuck,

I appreciate the offer and that could turn out to be valuable later on.

Currently, this is a bone stock 930 with no modifications and should pass smog just fine.

I was curious about the upgrades that are approved and still would offer more performance. With the stock exhaust, inter-cooler and turbo it seems doggy at times. I know they like to breath.

In the future, your exhaust may come in handy if I make the mods and then need to go back for smog. That is very nice of you.

Do you know anyone or have any resources of people that have added these type items and passed? Can you go in running lean and then adjust after you pass?

I just moved here less than a year ago from MI so smog is a new thing for me entirely.

Thanks again,

Bryan

My '79 passes with the following up grades, 3.5, twin plug, SC cams, CIS, K27 turbo, 3/4 bay intercooler, SSI's w/DP muffler, putting out 390 fwhp @ .9 bar. It still has the air pump and all plumbing hooked up, and the other smog stuff in place.
When I had the motor rebuilt at the end of last year I told the shop it needed to pass smog and I didn't want to be swapping a bunch of parts out every 2 years. Or, be looking for a special type of smog station. My only concern were the SSI's, but it turned out not to be a problem.
Harold
'79 930/DP935

Failed
 

Well,

I failed smog today with it being bone stock. 96k is hurting it a little. They said I am running rich. It passed 6 months ago, but it looks like the guy may have fibbed a little. I will lean it out a bit and then go back and try after the first.

I appreciate the input. I will be doing exhaust, turbo and inter-cooler for the time being until the engine gets tired. And then, a rebuild.

Do your parts have that CARB # so that they are approved in CA? How does that combination work. My apologies on my terminology, but what does SSI mean. Stainless Steel, Headers.. what?

I may have some additional questions for you later. If you don't mind you can send your number by private message.

Bryan

No carb #'s.
You may want to take it to a Porsche mechanic to lean it out to get it to pass, and have him take it to a smog station for the test. He will probably need to re-adjust it after the test. He would also make sure all the smog stuff is on the car to pass the visual. You would want to check everything with a CO meter.
SSI's are stainless steel head exchangers, the name of the company is SSI.

I got a two year waiver for being to low :D

Too Low?
 

Too low to the ground, or too low on your readings?

If it's too low to the ground, in CA they would just fail you if they cannot perform... I would imagine anyways.

Bry

HAHA Bman- what did you do?
I got my C4 with the 930 motor to pass by doing the following-
1 install cat
2 adjust the fuel mixture to ALMOST lean misfire
3 had MSD 6AL with blaster coil to fire the leaner mixture
4 bombarded the fuel mixture with dry gas (alcohol) on a low tank of gas.

In the end the car didnt drive very well to the test but when it was done I took the cat off, fattened up the mixture and drove worry free for the next 2 years.
If I could get a CIS motor to pass in the C4's body that was meant to have sequential injection with twin plug, anyone can do it.

Back when they used to have emission testing in Florida during the 90's, I used to get out the 3mm CIS allen wrench, pop the hood while waiting in line in the parking lot and lean it out till it idles a little rough then go through and pass their annoying test, then drive out the other side pop open the hood again and richen it back up a little till it idled smooth and drove off. . .

The brain dead kooks running the testing station had no idea what i was doing anyway.

Ading
 

I posted another thread on the this issue. So, on a turbo I can adjust until it idles a little rough and then take the test?

It seems too simple... if that is the only thing wrong.

Thanks,
Bryan

JFairman, I agree they are brainless- I was pulling injector wires and lowering fuel pressure while waiting for my appointment. I was asked "why is it idling so rough?" I replied with racing cams, overlap is reallll good for a turbo car.... Ha ha

In '82 I worked at a place that federalized grey market Porsches and Mercedes.
They all had CIS then and along with installing BMW cats and aftermarket lambda systems on the CIS head and temporarily leaning the piss out of it and disconnecting the cold start injector wiring they would pass the EPA engine running part of the test test so they could be registered here.
Sometimes we had to disconnect 2 injectors and on the Mercedes V8's and plug them and run them on 6 cylinders to get them to pass emissions.

There was also fuel evaporitive emissions testing and all the USA DOT headlight, turn signal, and the door and bumper bracing (the porsche post '74 aluminum bumpers didn't need any extra bracing)) crap that had to pass visually too.

...I always wondered where all the beautiful euro spec Mercedes and Porsche Bosch headlights, Hella turnsignal and taillights we removed and replaced with crappy DOT spec units ended up.

It seems it would help, but I think you'll need the air pump hooked up and running to pass with a 930.
My car lived in Tennesee and N. Carolina before I bought it and the previous owner was able to pass with the air pump and lambda system working but there was no cat.
It had/has the B&B headers and single out muffler on it and still passed emissions in those states.

Thankfully Florida ditched emissions testing years ago because almost everyone was driving newer cars that all passed here and everyone felt it was just a scam to collect money for the state so it was dropped.

I got mine to pass with only the cat and stock muffler on the car air injectors removed, it had the smog pump on and,I did plumb the air pump directly into the cat. This pumps fresh air directly into the cat. Passed with flying colors the tech said it ran very clean.
Make sure you get the cat hot, drive hard for about 30 minutes, also I ran fuel level down and used lower octane 87.
Hope this helps.

My stock (other than a disconnected, but still present air pump and O2 sensor) '87 passed last week. I wasn't too worried about the emissions/sniffer part, as the car has passed smog in 2 other states while I've owned it. It's not as simple as pulling plugs to get the motor to run on less than its full complement of 6 cylinders, as that's something they checked during the test. But California also has a visual test. So, depending on the knowledge base of who you take your car to to get smogged, you may or may not have a hard time. The mechanic standing next to me (not doing the test--just shootin' the breeze about cars with me) noticed the disconnected smog pump pretty quickly, and mentioned it to me quietly. The guy doing the test didn't seem to find that problem; at least he made no mention of it, despite taking a flashlight into every crevice of the engine bay. (FWIW, a PO had disconnected the air pump--not me.)

In California, supposedly anything you change from OEM is not legal. Either on the intake side, or the exhaust. Whether or not it has anything to do with emissions. But, to be considered a legal part, it has to have a CARB (California Air Resources Board) sticker exempting it. I think that process must be quite tedious and expensive. Hence, it's pretty rare to find an aftermarket part that has a CARB exemption. Again, whether or not you're caught on that will depend upon the acuity of the guy doing the visual test.

I made an effort to go for a longish drive (about 30-45 minutes) prior to my test, to get the motor nice and hot. The one time I didn't pass smog (in Oregon), was due to a coldish motor. That time, I took the car back out, gave it a few full-throttle full-boost runs up and down a street in a local industrial district, and retested successfully.

Noah930
 

Thanks for the info.

You would think that some aftermarket companies offer an exhaust with a carb #. It seems that they would get some great business if they offered a competitive product.

Regarding the test, the guy did look over everything. He was recommended to me by the Porsche mechanic here in town, but when I arrived at the shop (Christmas Eve), the guy in questions was not there so someone else that works there did it.

I have the air box off and am thinking about leaning it out a touch before I take the next test.

Question, does anyone know how many times you can take the test before there is some consequence (ie. taking it to a shop and documenting what was wrong/fixed) before you can take it again?

Thanks again,

Bryan

No idea about that one. I've never heard about any sort of limit. All the smog places seem to advertise that you can re-test for free if you fail. I'd imagine that if there was some limit to the number of failures you can rack up, then it would be publicized some place, either in the smog shop's literature, or on the DMV website (and I've tried looking these past couple weeks, before I took my own cars in). FWIW, that dynamometer is directly hooked up to the DMV computer, so once they input your VIN, the computer can pull up all those past successes/failures.

Isn't CA a state where you must pass a visual?

aka: good luck on any headers/no catalyst?

Yes...Calif uses a visual inspection in conjunction with the actual emissions test. They thought the Stainless Borla muffler I had on it was the cat and passed it on visual....but because I didnt' have a cat, it flunked the emissions part. I bought a practically new cat and muffler, retro'd it to stock and passed.

The problem with the older 930's is that there are very few smog guys who know what they're looking at.....they look for a cat and muffler....if there are obvious blingy things in there and no CARB certification sticker (I have a CARB sticker on there for the MSD unit and they looked at it hard and read the sticker language) they'll flunk it on the visual.

Best of luck to you...Chuck

You would think by now they woud know an MSD is CARB legal. I've thrown away a half dozen of the stickers installing them over the years.

I think what my brother... the OP, is going to do is, buy whatever turbo, headers, muffler, I/C and whatever else he wants, run it, and then change it out right before the 2 year inspection... then after he passes, change it back. It is so stupid, but I would think that a car with Motec, Link, or any other high end EFI system would be better and cleaner burning thatn a 20 plus year old car running CIS, but because it is not OEM, Or the manufacter didnt spend millions of dollars to get a CARB sticker...its illegal to run in CA...

Seems to me like CA, the EPA, and any other gov agency that is involved need to pull their head out of their ASSHO!E

I am all for trying to mAke a better, cleaner environment to live in... but at what expense???

Brat930: The problem is legislation...it takes an act of Congross (intentional misspell) to change the language in any legislation. Although logic tells you that the EFI cars are actually running cleaner than the CIS....or that some of the CIS setups can easily pass the EMISSIONS part of the test......they flunk it on the visual because of the language in the statute that defines what is "legal" and what isn't.

Here in California, it's a crap shoot when it comes to passing smog. You can take it to one person who doesn't know what to look for on the VISUAL part of the test and will pass it when the EMISSIONS part flies thru cleaner than the baseline specs. You go to another station and it flunks the visual right off the bat.....but you've already paid your fee and the data goes into the central DMV computer by VIN number.

Does it make sense that a clean running car should flunk because of visual? Hell no it doesn't, but that's the law....and until it's changed to be more realistic, you're stuck. I'm just waiting for my 930 to hit 25 years old, then I believe that it becomes classified as an antique and gets some exemption.....but I've got to check the language on that part.

chuck

Chuck,

chuck, you think? 25 years? I think they did away with that. I have your younger cousin, an 88 no slantnose. I got a built motor and no smog stuff on it. Geez I hope that 25 year thing is ture. Down here, they have rolling smog check. they pick one area, and sniff everyone. Thank god I don't drive my car everyday.

look171....I'm sure you had something worthy of saying....but it just didn't come thru. I await your response with baited breath. :)

Look171: Funny you shoud mention the road checks. Sometime back I mentioned this and got some responses that I was being paranoid.....that no one ever had run into a road check. I have...and especially in California the CHP is known to set up these checks. You can bet that they'll pull out an older Porsche if they happen to see it coming.

If you need the cat and muffler...you pay for the shipping and I'll be happy to loan it to you for the test. That way you only have to worry about two years down the road.


In the mean time ....enjoy the ride!!
Chuck

You need to move to AL. Down here are hybrids run gas and oil. :D

CA did away with the 25 yr. old law a few years ago. '75 is the last year for no smog.
One of the main reasons I bought (or justified buying ) the DP was it has always been a Ca car. and the dealer had to smog it before shipping it up.
Harold

Smog
 

Well,

I appreciate all of your input. I started to get a chubby when Chuck was talking about the "25 year antique exempt" issue, but I knew it was too good to be true.

I will, like my brother said, change these parts out every two years to make sure that I pass, but it is worth it in the long run. My guess is it will be a hassel the first time... seeing how the car has 96k on it and has never come apart, but it will be easy every two years as it will not be froze up (using SS nuts, etc.) and I will be familiar with the process.

What's 4 hours and being able to assess if anything is wrong with your car. I would guess that the CHP has absolutely no idea what a new exhaust, turbo and intercooler look like if they were not stock. I could lie and say that they are oem products that have been polished... they wouldn't know the difference.

What I am most concerned with is the emission numbers that I was producing during the smog test. I have posted them below. I know what the letters and abreviations mean, I just can't interpret them other than to say the car is running rich, but it seems like it could be a host of different things that would make this happen other than just leaning the car out to fix.

Any input? The results are below.

Test
15mph, HC (PPM) was 147 (max is 116 and GP was 291), CO% was 3.40 (Max was .74 and GP was 2.24)

25mph, HC (PPM) was 66 (max was 91 and GP was 241(this was ok)), CO% was 1.12 (max was .62 and GP was 2.12)

GP = Gross Poluter Limits
PPM = Parts Per Million
HC = I think Hydro carbons
CO = Carbon Monoxide

Any takers on what could be causing this? Please only respond to this particular question if you have some knowledge on this issue. I am not looking to confuse myself anymore than I already am.

Thanks,
Bryan

While I don't know what it means, here is mine for comparison:
hc (ppm) C0 % no (ppm)
max ave meas max. ave. meas. max ave meas
15 mph 214 47 27 1.35 0.20 1.17 1364 554 195

25 mph 181 37 16 1.16 0.17 1.16 1224 468 193

max: maximum allowable emissions
ave: average emissions for passing vehicles
meas: amount measured

"started to get a chubby...???? That's a new one on me and you had me laughing my A$$ off.

Sorry if I put out some misinformation with respect to the exemption for 25 year old cars....I do believe that Gumba is right when he said that anything from 75 on back is smog exempt, but I'm going to look up the statue anyway....sure would be nice.

To lower the CO you adjust the mixture screw with an allen key. You need to go leaner.

Hmmm. You might not only have smog testing to worry about.

In areas where street racing is killing too many innocent citizens, the CHP or the local PD will impound vehicles that don't pass visual inspection until they are put back to factory spec. By a shop of their choosing. If you don't pay for it to be done within a certain time period, they crush the vehicle.

Pretty sure they introduced that in San Diego when I was living there in response to all the ricers going out street racing, seem to recall reading it in the local paper.

CHP Visual
 

Well, if I get a ticket, I will already have all of the original parts to put back to original for smog tests, so I should be ok. I appreciate your concern though.

Bryan

Spuggy: From what I've heard, the deal about crushing the vehicles has nothing to do with whether they pass smog....it has to do with the judges passing sentences on the kids who are caught street racing where there's an injury/death, and part of the sentencing is to make them watch while their cars are being crushed. Apparently that tactic gets their attention.

California car crush:
I dont care about if I was wrong by street racing or not, I would take a jail sentence just to destroy any official that had a hand in sentencing my car to being crushed- along with whoever created the law. I would make make what the taliban does for torture look like a swedish massage.

On the emmisions thing, I dont think the cops are going to bother Porsche owners so much as people from my generation drag racing their hondas and things like that.

930gt wrote..."I would take a jail sentence just to destroy any official that had a hand in sentencing my car to being crushed- along with whoever created the law. I would make make what the taliban does for torture look like a swedish massage."

What kind of a bull**** statement is that? You're saying you'd "destroy any official that had a hand in sentencing....." What you're saying is that you'd kill, assault, or whatever the judge who passed down that sentence? You may not agree with the sentencing....but that sort of threat is over the top and inappropriate. If you don't like the law or the sentencing, there are other means for dissenting rather than threatening to kill or torture a judge.

Fighting
 

Hey, take it outside... everybody calm down. I am sure he was exaggerating to get his point across. Now, please read below.

Can we get back to the original question at hand? Does anyone know how to read my results other than to say "lean it out"? I would like to be more knowledgeable on these numbers and what other than "running lean" could affect them.

1) Is it the catalytic converter that's bad
2) Is something else here that I'm missing

Thanks guys,

Bryan

Bryan,

Try this, some good info. If you need help with changing muffler and cat, let me know.

http://www.firstfives.org/faq/smog/smog_faq.html

regards,
Julian