Hello,
I have a 1973.5 2.4CIS engine complete and running.

What would I have to do to add a turbo charger to the motor?

My dad seems to remember people making a block-off plate for the Air box, and running boost through it.

I have a turbo, and the means to set it up, but would like to know more about what needs to be done. If it is just blocking off the air box, and running boost through the stock system, and the CIS does all the Air/fueling, then I got it, but I'm sure that you have to play with the CIS system to keep up with boost, right?

I would love to hear some advice, and experience with these older engines and turbo charging. :)

There was someone that did this recently on the same motor.

You might try a search or start another post requesting help. You will get a lot of help.

This thread is more about how to make a 930's set up work better.

The best.

In our quest for more fuel we often ship the FD reg in increase System Pressure. At some point the fuel pumps may become the limiting factor.

Here is a link to spec on different pumps that might be used to support such a strategy.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/522178-cis-fuel-pump-options-more-fuel.html#post5134395

Perfect CIS AFR's and programmable Boost control by RPM at a modest price see this thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/482246-electronic-cis-fueling-boost-control.html

This has so much potential to transform a CIS 930 using a special AIC from Split Second Timing, Plumbing from the Andial Fueler, and a boost control valve from AEM.

It also has an option through the AIC to monitor RPM, manifold pressure, and several other sensors if wanted on to a PC and only costs about $320.

I believe it can even monitor any wide band O2 sensor voltage output and graph it against RPM & MAP and other sensor data.

Yup.. I saw this also...

I am 50% there. I have an HKS-AIC hooked up already in my car-7th injector plumbed into the intercooler-shooting down , working well so far-(safety). If I was to do it, i would need some help. It doesn't look that bad to do.. I just don't have the patience and the electrical part I hate. MSD6AL was a pain enough to do. My mechanic would do it...But when do i get my car back...takes his time becuz i'm on the back burner/price.

You understand we are NOT using the AIC to drive a 7th injector!

It is generally accepted that this is a bad idea on a 930.

Some have gotten away with doing so but it is believed this makes for significant variations if AFR's per cylinder.

We are using the AIC to bleed control pressure off the WUR so we can manipulate our AFR's.

From rennlist:

"It uses a unit developed by auto edge and a fuel injection engineer, I am not sure of all the ins and outs but it is a laptop programable unit with a proper fuel map that controls the pressure across the CIS I do know that supporting 600HP with this setup and CIS should be possible as we were able to get A/F into the 9's with only 75% duty all the way to redline."


My K27 HFS results - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Auto Edge - Home

Nice results!

Did u change the cams?

Black Hat,

Please see if you can get a web site address for the Whipflash Laptop programmable jetronic fuel management system your tuner used.

I had to make my own some seven years ago and now we have the D-WUR. There is one or two others including the Unichip system that can do this but this if the first time I have heard of this.

Also, how about posting your dyno results. I can not open the Rennlist info. Here is a good place: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/521544-ultimate-930-dyno-thread.html or maybe start a thread on your car. The head lights look interesting to.

Thank you in advance if you can help.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270762417.jpg

sorry all
it is not mine
I thought you might find this interesting
the tuner that developed this is in
900 Wildwood Road - Mahtomedi, MN. 55115.
voice (651)777-6924 - fax (651)777-6281

here is the site
Auto Edge - Home

link to car build
Project Cars

Hi Guys this is my Car.
The unit is actually mfg by the shop.
We have since the last run added a boost controller to the unit and now runs 1 bar and 415 WHP, 11.5-11.8 across the map.
Mods are k27 HFS, whipflash cis, fab speed headers, fabspeed cat bypass,web 964 na cams, regeared box, removed air pump, an a bunch of unrelated stuff.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814315.jpg

here are a couple of pics
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814820.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814834.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814846.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814857.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814872.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270814884.jpg

Very, very nice.

Do you know if the boost controller is built into the fueler and mappable by rpm?

Dose it use the O2 input?

Did they have the Fuel Distributor (fuel head) worked for more fuel?

Jonty,

You and your turner look to have built about the perfect CIS C2 turbo. I had a 91 C2turbo with all the same goodies except for the larger turbo. I had a larger core in my intercooler. I also did a mappable fueler to control the AFR's perfectly.

However, I really wished I could have re-geared the trany for a closer ratio 2-5 gear set to raise the average HP per gear and keep in on cam.

Your combo of build and transmission suggests you know your stuff or have found a rare tuner that really knows what he is doing with these old CIS cars.

I am not often impressed but well done!!! :D

Thanks, the boost controller is stand alone, no rework on the cis head as it isn't necessary, no O2 input but I do have AEM xwifi unit with a wide band and a EGT on each bank which works very well.
I had wanted 420 to the wheels and a close ration box, which I now have and will enjoy :)

Keith, do you remember what the system pressure was in your car?

Sorry I do not. It was converted to a euro Fuel Dist and lines before I got it and assunm SP was stock euro non lambda.

Just played with the control pressures.

Hey guys, I have an idea, maybe has been discussed before but, at least I have not seen it. CIS was an advancement in it's time but obviously it is not close to ideal. We are constantly thinking about alternatives to make it as close to ideal (comparative to a modern EFI).

My opinion is that there are too many variables that operate at a mechanical level which are difficult to manipultate, MP, WUR, FD, low chamber pressure, high chamber pressure, etc.... Like any formula, you change one variable and all the others are affected.

The real option is EFI....but I, like many others do not want to move away from the CIS, be it cost, originality, the challenge of making it work at high HP, among others.

Well my idea is eliminate all the variables..take away the WUR and MP (along with its pivot arm) and put a single injector EFI by keeping the FD with the mixture pin stuck open and just work as a fuel distribution block and controlling the fuel rate with a single 500 lb/min injector (Precision Turbo Domestic Performance Fuel Injector Top Feed - Double O-Ring: No Limit Motorsport). Just about any ECU out there from Megasquirt to MOTEC will be able to control this, may be able to get away with just using a split second injector controller but have not done the entire research. This would be as close as we could get with controlling fuel without moving to individual injection Electronic fuel injection and keep a stock looking engine bay.

Interesting.

Thought of this before but I did not know there was a single injector that would supply enough fuel. My thought was to use a bank of injectors.

The next question becomes if the EFI injector can handle the pressure it will have to operate at to make this work.

EFI injectors vary how much fuel they deliver by increasing there frequency (with rpm) and duty cycle.

CIS injectors can only vary there delivery quantity with changes in there supply pressure.

In EFI terms, it would be like they only come in one size and they can only operate at a 100% duty cycle so we have to vary fuel pressure to control how much fuel they deliver.

Thus, lets say you operate the EFI injector at say 60 psi at 1 bar boost at 100% duty cycle the CIS injectors become a restriction and might only deliver about 50% of the fuel intended.

Saying it another way to get enough fuel past the CIS injectors at WOT to support 400+ HP you will probably have to operate at something like 80-100psi.

If so, we probably only need a about a 300# injector but it needs to be able to operate at up the the system pressure the Fuel Distributor is used to working at.

Still, it seems to have potential if the right high pressure injector can be found.

The savings is in not having to re-plumb the whole car. You will still probably want most the sensors of a simple MAP EFI system. Still, a simple kit could probably be under $2k and take a week end to install.

Any takers? :D

ps: I sent them an email requesting the operating pressures it is rated for and if it can work at 100psi.

911st, I am in...I have used the MegaSquirt before and have some overall knowledge plus I love this stuff. I was thinking that instead of having the injector inject fuel, use it to return fuel to the tank instead to effectively control the system's pressure. I think this way the injector will work less at top rpm hence maintaining a a more steady pressure where we want it most and also avoid possible fuel delivery delays. Also thought about a Speed density setup to avoid a MAF.

What ever you need I am here to support this initiative.