Newbie doofus

humbert · 04-19-2009, 12:43 PM

OK, so I've found a 930 that I really, really like and if I get serious about buying, yes, I will get a PPI. It's an 87 with about 40K miles. But earlier today I spoke at length with a very knowledgable "expert" who cautioned me against buying ANY 930, due to what he described as inevitably higher (really higher) maintenance expenses (he mentioned 6K for a reseal as an example). He said "open your wallet" if you decide to buy a 930. Now I know that, as with any high performance older car, maintenance expense is always an issue and a given, and I am prepared to pay a reasonable amount to do what is necessary. I have zero expertise and would perform no work myself--it would all be done by my local Porsche guy. I know each car is different, but am I potentially jumping into a money pit, even assuming the PPI checks out and I am buying a good car?

NathanUK · NathanUK's Garage

Depends what other car you compare the costs too.

What are you comparing costs to?

turbobrat930 · 04-19-2009, 01:14 PM

Also depends on how much work could you do yourself?? I reseal should be no more than any other 911 based engine..IF you take the engine out of the car yourself..AND take all the extras off ( IE: I/C, turbo, exhaust, Fi system, etc).

I just read the part saying that you would NOT do any of the work yourself.....

There is more to go wrong on a 930, and the parts are more expensive. However, that is not the reason you should be looking for to buy or not to buy. How is the car?? After the PPI, what are its problems, how much money can you get the guy who is selling the car down to? Have you ever driven a 930? What are your reasons for owning one? Is it a car that you can not live without? Is it something, that if you dont own one, you will regret it for the rest of your life? To me, having a 930 completes me... no other car can come close for the money.....

You can do a rebuild for under 10 grand... or you can spend upwards of 30 grand or more... just depends on which direction you want to go....

cole930 · 04-19-2009, 01:17 PM

Humbert,

If a good PPI is done you should have a lot of information if there are any issues. Simply take those issues to your local guy and ask for estimates on cost of those repairs. That should let you know what to expect. Use that info to negotiate the purchase price.

Cole

humbert · 04-19-2009, 02:01 PM

Regarding the "cannot live without" issue: there is almost nothing I cannot live without. I own lots of very nice things, and I thoroughly enjoy them, but I'm no longer so attached to them that they are that meaningful. I just want a really interesting, satisfying third car that I find fun to drive and unique on the road.

Regarding the "have you driven one" question: yes I have, and I really enjoy it, but perhaps not for the reasons that many others do. I like the looks, the attitude, the sound, the presence on the road, the heft, the relative rarity...and probably a few other things as well. I'm not a track guy.

Regarding the "compared to what" issue: compared to other Porsches of the same vintage or era, such as a 911 3.2, a 911 SC, a 964 or maybe even a 993.

Regarding the "get the seller to pay for PPI issues" issue: what I'm referring to in my query doesn't have to do with what's wrong today, but future issues that may be somewhat predictible. My "expert" tells me that it's inevitable that the engine would have to resealed at some point, but if that point isn't going to occur for 20K more miles, I can't expect the seller to fund it.

David · David's Garage

Most of the costs are similar to any other 911. Some exceptions are the turbo charger, clutch and brakes. The good thing is many of the parts are stronger than the NA 911.

Compared to any Ferrari, they're cheap

The problem is when you get the HP bug.

Shadetree930 · 04-19-2009, 04:06 PM

Here is another way to look it ...

You could start with a standard SC or 3.2 but you would always lust for a 930. Then you have to sell your existing 911 to get the 930 you should have bought in the 1st place (look at my sig).

Save yourself time and money ... do the right thing and get the real deal. The smile on your face will make you forget everything your expert said with respect to maintenance costs.

Buy a GOOD 930. Maintenance will not be an issue as long as you keep up with it and address things proactivley. Like any old car ... let things slip and the cost curve goes up exponentially.

e p slick · e p slick's Garage

Buy it if good PPI, Drive the crap out of it, Use it up, Spit it out and Get another.

Consider what other things you could spend your loot on:

Lexus SUV, Boat, Taxes, High tone vacation, Landscaping, Big deal watch, Mother in law's birthday party, Etc. ad nauseum.

Life is short - have a stimulating good time - Buy a 930 - you will not regret it.

EPS - on my 3rd.

JFG · 04-19-2009, 05:22 PM

The 930 can be a very reliable car. It depends alot on how the car was taken care of. Unfortunatly the 930 is easy car to modify and sometimes people go for the easy HP and don't take into consideration the effects it will have on the car when other things are ignored. I think because alot of these cars were prostituted, for lack of a better analogy, they eventually earned a bad reputation for problems. When properly cared for and modified correctly they can be a very reliable car. Good luck with your search.

humbert · 04-20-2009, 02:31 AM

Thank you all for your insights. Someone who apparently knows of this car and the results of a prior PPI described the engine as "tired". What does that mean, and how could it be "tired" after a mere 40K miles? Is "tired" an objective term?

Shadetree930 · 05:15 AM

Actually "tired" in the 930 Lexicon means ..... "this is going to be an expensive car ................ run!".

Just curious, but what is your budget for a 930? The reason I ask is ... you can get them cheap (and pay for it later) or you can pay for a good one up front.

In the end, they all end up costing about the same.

Shadetree930 · 04-20-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeinhere

I'd argue that often the cheaper car will cost you more and you'll hate the experience...unless your initial plans were to redo the car...at which point, it'll cost you 4X as much.

True ... how do you put a price on frustration? Life is too short ...

humbert · 04-20-2009, 05:50 AM

My budget is low 30s, I guess? The car in question is low 30s so that's what I've sort of attached myself to. Obviously if I can get a "no stories" car for less, that's fine too.

How is "tired" determined, objectively speaking??

Shadetree930 · 04-20-2009, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humbert

My budget is low 30s, I guess? The car in question is low 30s so that's what I've sort of attached myself to. Obviously if I can get a "no stories" car for less, that's fine too.

How is "tired" determined, objectively speaking??

Oil leaks, boost leaks, poor compression, rough running, hard starting, oil smoke on decel, any combination of poor maintenance and/or abuse. Generally speaking, tired means run hard and put away wet.

Shadetree930 · 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humbert

My budget is low 30s, I guess? The car in question is low 30s so that's what I've sort of attached myself to. Obviously if I can get a "no stories" car for less, that's fine too.

How is "tired" determined, objectively speaking??

You may find a good 930 for low 30s. it all depends on the model year, options, color, condition, degree of molestation and interestly enough, geography. Between 38.5 and 42.5 should get you a very good example of an 87-88 930.

Of course if you go to Pomona, you can get a garage queen '89 930 with 12k miles for $18,500.

humbert · 04-20-2009, 06:05 AM

Interesting. Well, one problem is that there are no maintenance records prior to ownership by the dealer who is currently selling it. It's now been serviced and tuned, but beyond that I have no idea what the history is, and I guess it's impossible to know without records.

willtel · 04-20-2009, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humbert

My budget is low 30s, I guess? The car in question is low 30s so that's what I've sort of attached myself to. Obviously if I can get a "no stories" car for less, that's fine too.

How is "tired" determined, objectively speaking??

If I were handing over money for a PPI I would want a better technical explanation of the condition of the engine than that. Compression and leak down numbers per cylinder at a minimum. Also a description of what the plugs looked like when they were removed. A single boost leak on these cars can make a world of difference in how the engine responds and runs.

Shadetree930 · 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humbert

Interesting. Well, one problem is that there are no maintenance records prior to ownership by the dealer who is currently selling it. It's now been serviced and tuned, but beyond that I have no idea what the history is, and I guess it's impossible to know without records.

Dealer? As in Porsche (new)? Used car lot? Used Porsche Specialist? Buy Here - Pay Here?

humbert · 04-20-2009, 06:19 AM

An exotic vintage car specialist. They sell everything but do a good amount of Porsche biz.

DDDD · 04-20-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humbert

Interesting. Well, one problem is that there are no maintenance records prior to ownership by the dealer who is currently selling it. It's now been serviced and tuned, but beyond that I have no idea what the history is, and I guess it's impossible to know without records.

Humbert,

If you buy a turbo in excellent condition it will have no more costs associated with it than a 3.2, the cars are pretty identical except for one has a turbo. The old fashion fuel injection is reliable if you maintain it. Modification costs are another issue and can run up fast, so if you want to go that route than simply buy a great modded car to begin with.

If the car has been run at too much boost, than the engine will be worn. That is what the PPI is all about, getting the best damn leak down and compression test possible.

Really the turbo is the only 'X' factor because all porsches are very reliable, period.

Now about your budget. You can buy amazing 930s all day long for mid to low 20's, period.

Buy yourself an excellent condition 930 for low to mid 20's and get it PPI'd. And stop worrying about anything, you will be good to go.

The 1987 is way overpriced if it has a 'beat' engine. It is overpriced anyway compared to the current market and you being attached to it is the wrong way to proceed.

Ebay is flooded with non-selling 930s and the price range is 20-26. You can get spotless 930s for like 27,500. I mean concours stuff.

Buy a good condition 930 and it will last a long time.