Skunkwerks - Custom Headers
 

I thought I would share a couple of projects we have been working on for fellow Pelicans. Not your typical headers as these are going on highly modified engines. The designs were a collaboration with the clients for their specific application.

This set is for a single turbo and will have a very unique Y-assembly which is being completed. Material is our signature 321 stainless, thick port flanges, 1.625" primaries are equal length, merge collector has double-walled slip joints. The client chose to use Burns collectors with secondary v-band clamps.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1266167987.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1266168174.jpg


This set of mirrored 1.625" primaries is the bassis for a big horsepower twin turbo. There is enough interest in the old school rear hanging 930 twins that we will add the 1.5" version to the product line. More on this when the secondaries are finished ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1266169013.jpg

I like!

headers...as a form of art!!

Beautiful work.

Beautiful, how's the dyno work coming on your standard headers?

Look really good,burns collectors do look quality!

Thanks all. I hope to dyno my headers this week if we can get a break in the weather. Hooked up the LM-1 yesterday and all looks good.

The mirrored headers use our collectors.

Very, very nice!

Nice welding. Engineering questionable, depending on intended purpose.

The engineering is proper for the project constraints. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Talk is just talk without data.

Noice!!!!!!!!

+930

I too am looking forward to data.

Are you going to compare against stock, or B&B, Schnell, SSI, GHL?

Talk is just talk without data?
There is no mention of performance data in this thread. This is about sharing what our fellow Pelican gearheads are up to and that the economy has not killed the enthusiasm for hotrodding our cars. Even I live vicariously through my clients and fellow Pelicans and always look forward to seeing what they have going on.

Those headers are beautiful!

The snow and constant gloom in Detroit takes a toll on folks. I know since I live there for 3 years.

It would be extremely cost/time prohibitive to test my headers against all others. My baseline is the stock Euro J-pipe system. I may choose one representative short tube header and dyno that.
Again, this thread is not about my 930 headers but rather the cool things others are doing that I am fortunate enough to be part of.

I wonder if there is a bigger market for shortie trade ups or stock trade ups?

Testing against stock 930 "euro" and the B&B's would be a great thing if it could be done.

Brian - I wouldn't expect you to test against "all others". I'm asking which "one" so I can understand what market you're looking to support. It appears that you are looking to support the general bolt-on market (OEM replacement), of which I'm not part of. I am always on the look-out for something cutting edge - without data or experience in a high performance environment, it's not something I would be interested in, but I like following your development. I remember when I had my CIS motor and was running a GHL header at +400rwhp. I knew I just had to have equal length 1 5/8 pipes for my motor to boost power. When I got my custom Manzie headers and bolted them on, I lost about 15hp (I remember Stephen at IA saying, "told ya so.."). It wasn't until AFTER I converted to EFI that the custom equal length headers really made the motor come alive. It was one of the first headers Marco made on his own and he was sure they would make a big difference on my CIS car - I fell for the talk. I try not to repeat those mistakes.

However, I fully support your efforts to build a top notch bolt-on header that performs better than OEM. I really hand it to you for the time and effort you put into your passion and your willingness to share your experience. The headers look great and I hope you show they perform even better.

Just thinking out loud.

We know the shorties out perform the stock J pipe system on HP, boost onset, & lag.

Most us us probably accept this system is a major performance improvement over a stock system just based on logic and the emotion of looks.

A test against the stock will only tell us what we already pretty much accept, that this system is better than stock.

Only doing that will leave open the real question most of us really want to know. Is it better than the current staple from B&B or GHL!

Testing against B&B or GHL in a head on with monitoring of 1) boost, 2) AFR, and it at all possible 3) back pressure in the headers before the turbo -- might tell us what we really want to know.

But only if we can accept that a credible effort was made.

In contrast. B&B compares there system to the ealy stock USA with thermal reactors. That is not a credible effort nor very useful.

Otherwise we are left to interpolate or guess if this system is better than the competition.

Thus, if there is only going to be one comparison, one against the real competition would be more usable.

The workmanship looks first rate. looks a heck of alot better than my B&B.

One question, how do you test all performance benefits of a turbo exhaust system? Cars drive on streets not rollers. Furthermore once you put a turbo and associated hardware on an engine you have a dynamic system. This is a problem unique to turbo engines. Add to this, raw HP measurement (data?) has never been an absolute predictor of increased performance or improved user satisfaction.
Related misconceptions:
Bigger brakes mean a car will stop faster.
Wider tires mean greater cornering speed.
Taking Enzyte means more action for middle aged guys.
Pelican site truth:
Exhaust system threads always get highly opinionated and often personal. Same thing happens on the N.A. motor threads.
.

I don't think it makes a difference which one as they are all the same. I suspect that most are made by the same Asian company as well.
The core products are for CIS power level engines. We make kits for the high powered EFI fellows and build them to order. The configuration of the kits is chosen by the client. Sizing of the primary and secondary ID is critical to performance and discussed in length.

I agree to a point. My thoughts have always been that there is much more to performance than just early boost and a horse power bump. There is also value based performance in quality workmanship, materials, detail and end use longevity. My products have nothing in common with the short tube headers other than they bolt onto a 930.

I'd like to buy headers in the next year, but I would only buy a set other than B&B if I saw overlaid comparison dyno charts. GHL or Fabspeed would work too, just if I don't see rarlyl8 headers power on top of the power of a short tube header, I can't take the risk.

Lovely work but I have one question, why does the single turbo system have thick port flanges?

Is to give the system a bit more support for the single turbo which I am guessing will be mounted a lot further away from the ports than the twin turbo system?

Ben mentioned these could be inboard or outboard in orientation...I assume the owner is going outboard to acommodate big turbos? Can't wait to see them on the car!

The custom headers used thick flanges provided by the client. Personal preference.

Completely understand that my standard 930 headers need to out-perform the short tube variety. It may be difficult to measure off boost torque on a dyno as copbait eluded to but I will do my best. Now if we can just get the weather to cooperate ...

Yes mirrored headers can orient inboard or outboard.

In a word, heat. In two words, heat cycles. There is a point of diminishing returns, so thicker is not always better. At idle a typical 930 motor exhaust will be around 475 degrees F, but at WOT, it can range from 1500 to 1600 degrees depending on the tune. The flanges need to be fairly robust (resistance to warping) to avoid leaks.

Ideally, the turbo should be supported by something more than the header.

I think what we all want to know is compared to the B&B style headers, do these make more power. Do they come on boost faster, do they make more power off idle before boost comes in.

All this can be measured on a dyno if care is taken.

Depending on the results, dose this mean a car with equal length over shorties will be faster on the street. Who knows.

More HP dose not always make for a faster car in the real world or on the track. However, responsive average HP usually dose.

Torque and improved driveability is what I am after. No doubt in my mind I've got a gob more than I used to. A gob more power as well. Second gear never broke loose before with the furry it has now. I too am exited to see what she does at the dyno and to correlate what I see on the graph to what I am experiencing in the seat.

Don, that first set of custom headers belongs to a friend of yours ... ;)

I'll soon be installing Brian's headers (with heat), muffler, Tial wastegate and Leask adjustable WUR all at the same time. This will be replacing the stock (Euro) system on my car. The engine is mostly stock with the exception of a K27-7200 and some fiddling of the ignition curve done by a previous wrench.

If someone can recommend a dyno in or around Toronto I'd be happy to post before and after results, as well as a comprehensive all round driveability report based on my butt dyno.

GHL is out of business from what I understand.

IMO, the only short header that needs be tested is the B+B.

Brian,

Did you do any base line runs with your old system?

Where are you seeing boost onset and full boost on the old v new?

I used to do runs from 1500rpm in second or third (G50/50) and noted my boost onset and full boost points.

Would be fun to know.

Thx.

My engine configuration was chosen purposely to use as a baseline for product testing. Euro heat exchangers with typical mods. Target was 300WHP. Many dyno runs have been done testing my mufflers and fuel system modifications. Stock boost spring is full open (0.75bar) by 3000rpm with the K27-7200. Max torque was flat from 3700-5000rpm. Now? Much sooner.
The weather is still bad here with salt down and many roads closed this morning. May be an opportunity to dyno at the end of the week or on Saturday.

Yep - he can't wait....

I received the completed secondary assembly for the thick flange headers. I think he's gonna like 'em.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1266381447.jpg

LOL, give the man a break, can't wait to see the end result.

Nice wastegate circuits.

Nice work Brian!!! Looks like the possibilities are becoming endless.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that we don't know what we don't know but Brian gives us all some great products to talk about and clearly they do provide power gains and are built way better than B+Bs. It really is just the final step to dyno them. Everything else is decidedly in Brian's favor at this point!