Zeitronix connection to RPM & MAP
 

I just received my Zeitronix datalogger with LCD display and MAP sensor. The kit looks very neat and installation should be straight forward.

According to the instructions, the RPM signal should be taken from the low voltage side of the coil. Can I use a signal from the tach instead?

Also, where is the best place to pick up vacum/boost signal for the MAP sensor?


I have been going back and forth on the LM systems from Innovate, and although it seems to have many possibilities, I have seen many frustrated posts about getting it to work. So, I ended up with the Zeitronix... The downside to this is the lack of on board logging storage, so you have to have the laptop hooked up to log data for analysis and tuning. I have ordered the necessary parts to build a small "data logging memory plug" that plugs into the serial port on the Zeitronix as any other computer dongle. I am basing this on a small micro-SD card reader. The micro-SD cards can be had with up to 8 og 16GB of storage (if not more) and this should be plenty for logging a cross country trip.

I wired the RPM signal to the tach wire, and tapped off the boost hose to the wastegate for the MAP.

You can also use the ZAVT-1 with a solenoid on the boost line to your WUR for mixture control.

BTW I would be really interested in your onboard logging, if you get it to work well.

When you tap the waste gate hose, you only get boost. I'm interested in absolute pressure, with vacuum as well. There should be a tap at the manifold somewhere, and I would guess that this vacuum/boost signal is to be found other places in the engine compartment as well. Question is where?

This is from memory, but I think the wastegate hose connects to the base of the throttle body, so you should get vacumn/boost.

I hope you get your Zeitronics to work well and get the data logging and boost to work.

I don't want to sound like a broken record on here plugging the Daytona Sensors unit that our host sells, and I am involved in the distribution of this great unit, so I am biased I guess. I love mine that I have permanently installed.

The Daytona Sensors Wego IV hooks straight into the tach signal on your car. I have one permanently installed on my 1973 2.7 MFI engine, and have a GM Map sensor hooked up to the vacuum line. It does log 2 hours of data on the fly and you just download it and analyze it later.

Our host sells the Wego IV for just over $400 USD and this includes everything. Sensor, cables, software, datalogging, and tach hookup. You do have to supply the MAP/Boost sensor, but there is an input for that.

I know you are committed to the Zeitronix, which is a good unit, I just want other Pelicans to know that there is a good, easy to install alternative that is a good value and very accurate and well built. And you don't need all those boxes and wires that the competition needs and the extra $$$.

here is a photo:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284422111.jpg

Wastegate hose is typically connected to the intercooler, which is ported vacuum rather than manifold vacuum. To get a manifold vac signal, you usually tap into one of the lines that are plumbed to the base of the throttle body, below the throttle plate.

Bingo!

I checked last night. When I plumbed in my EBC I had to run a line to the base of the throttle body, I tapped off of that for my MAP.

I connected mine to the tach with no problems at all...mi car is a 964 though, not sure if there is a difference.

This is the only line I can find on the throttle body, below the throttle plate. Its going to the front side of the WUR. Would this be the correct place to tap for a signal to the MAp sensor? (red arrow). Btw, what is the connector in the green circle. Its never been connected as long as I've had the car.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284767301.jpg


Her is a snap of the Zeitronix kit. It seems like a good quality kit. I like the solid connectors for the engine compartment, and the wire for the O2 sensor is more than long enough to reach the controller which I'm placing under the seat. The wire for the display is an ordinary phone cable, with a phone connector for the controller. I think it will be a straight forward install, and I'll report my progress.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284767853.jpg

My car is a little different but I would certainly tap to the line you have pointed out for the MAP.

I have trouble getting an RPM reading at this stage. I have tried both terminals on the coil, and the black/purple tach wire.

The negative terminal on the coil give me intermittent signals around 300-400 RPM while the positive terminal give me readings in excess of 25000 rpm. The Tach wire give me a zero reading. I have scaled the arpm input to a 6 cyl. engine..

Any ideas?

So, the Zeitronix install is complete except for the O2 sensor bung welding that I need some help with.

With the exception of RPM reading problems (previous post), the hole install was really straight forward. My laptop can log data, and everything worked at first try.

I hate lose cables in the car and nasty home made connections under the dash, so I made two sets of wiring looms, one to the engine compartment and one to the fusebox, all wrapped in shrink tube. It makes the installation much more tidy. I included a couple of extra wires for future use...

I mounted the Zeitronix controller and the connections under the passenger seat. The wires to the engine is routed through the transmission linkage tunnel, and over the transmission and in to the engine together with the reverse signal from the tranny.

I mounted the connectors next to the rear-right shock tower.


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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284922066.jpg

Temporary mounting of the MAP behind (or actually in front of) the WUR
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284922135.jpg


MAP signal from hose between throtle body and WUR with a simple T-connector.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284922241.jpg

Very simple installation under pass. seat compared to some of the other installations I've seen here on the forum. Spare cables for future use...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284922261.jpg

The LCD display is made for the ashtray location. Easy double sided tape install for now. Good display with excellent contrast, and user defined parameters; here with default settinggs
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284922277.jpg



I'm impressed with the simple install, and the nice kit from Zeitronix. I know most of the crowd here prefers the LM-x from Innovate, but seeing that many have problems with the install I opted for Zeitronix. Good price too.

The downside to the Zeitronix, is that you have to use a computer to log data. No internal buffering. So, I have started a project to make a small battery driven dongle to connect to the Zeitronix serial port. This will hopefully log to a small built- in micro SD reader in the dongle.

Nicely done!

For the display, I bent a metal angle and used the ashtray bracket screws to secure the angle to the dash, then used double stick on the back side of the display to the angle. You might want to offset the display slightly to the left so you can get your pinky finger in there to hit the 'max' button.

Still have problems with the RPM signal, any suggestions?

I'm using the tach signal wire with no problems.

Just checked mine, and I definitely used the tach signal wire.

Do you have a stock ignition? MSD or other aftermarket?

I have stock ignition.......

I bought Zeitronix some months ago and like to install so I am subscribe and cross finger for your results...

And you stock tach works fine, without any jumping or weird behavior?

Have you traced the wire all the way to the tach?

I tapped mine off of the ECU under the drivers seat, but that only works on lambda cars.

You might run a test wire from the ZT-2 to the tach itself and try it there, just for fun.

I have tried both sides of the coil AND directly from the tach. Tach itself works fine until I unplug the black/violet wire to connect directly to the Zeitronix.

Now I'm playing around with the grounding for Zeitronix. I first led +12V and ground from the fusebox in front (a grounding point under the vacuum booster. Now I've picked up ground from the CDI without any better result. There is a signal ground on the CDI connector that is used for the coil, but I don't if I should try this.....

I not sure about this, so you might check with Zeitronix, but if you hooked up the ZT-2 directly to the coil with a CD ignition it could have fried the driver inside the ZT-2 with the higher CD voltage and you may never get the tach to work. If it doesn't have some type of isolation.

I've seen this happen before, on tachs and other devices. I not sure about the stock CD, but some put out 400V on the primary side of the coil.

You know, I think you are right........ I'm waiting for feedback from Zeitronix at the moment......

I have finally solved this problem of reading the RPM signal.

There was two layers to this problem. Since I uncritically connected the RPM input to both of the connectors on the coil, I fried one of the input components in the Zeitronix. So all of the time I was trying the tach RPM signal, I was doing so with a broken Zeitronix. When I eventually opened the box, it was obvious that the input circuit was burned bad. I ordered a replacement op-amp from my local electronics dealer, but could still not get the RPM signal to work.

Since I needed this data logger setup for my tuning project, I ordered a new Zeitronix box. When I still could not get an RPM reading on the Zeitronix, I was almost at the point of giving up. It's been more than two years now. Every time I tested a new idea to get this to work, I had to pop out the speedometer to get to to the RPM wire. Unplugging the wire from the tach and connecting it to a wire going to the Zeitronix RPM input.

I decided to make a three way connector, so that the RPM wire could be connected to the tack and the Zeitronix simultaneously, like it would in a permanent installation. And presto, the damned thing FINALLY got an RPM reading!! :eek: About time! :) Why I ask my self, and can find no answer. Purple/black wire to Zeitronix: no reading (on tach nor Zeitronix) Confirming that this was actually the tach signal wire. Purple/black wire to both tach AND Zeitronix: reading on both.

It even works with my old repaired Zeitronix box.

Thought I'd share, to help others in the same situation.

One down side to the Zeitronix when I bought it, was that it had no flash memory for internal log storage. You had to have a laptop connected to collect data. Now Zeitronix have made a small logging device; a dongle with micro SD card reader that connects to the serial port on the Zeitronix.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1367081438.jpg

I have that small dongle loggind device. It has just 1 button. Press to start logging. Press to stop. It creates a new file each time. Works pretty well.

I am thinking of putting in a switch so it automatically logs upon full throttle or once boost reaches a certain threshold.

Thanks for doing this. I'm tackling this install next week I hope. I'm going to wire their controller to their new data recorder (uses SD card) and see if I can stand just to record data and analyze it without actually watching the a/f ratio bounce around on a gauge!

That data recorder is really nice. You can make as many recordings as you like, just by pressing the button, and you can see the little diode blinking when recording.

I was on the way to make one myself, but never got around to package the electronics. Since my project took so long, and Zeitronix came with their own, I took the easy way out....

Just an update to my old data logging thread. After my engine upgrade last summer, I installed two air temp sensors to monitor the charge air temp before and after the IC. The plan was to do this first on my old setup, and then measure the effect of the new TurboKraft IC, and also see any effect of possible shrouding for the IC. Never got around to do this before I rebuilt the engine, and having ordered an extra bung in the charge pipe from TK, I just installed both. After trying to analyze the data from the MAP and O2 sensor, I find it hard to see the data in relation to what I'm doing with the throttle. I got a TPS that I'm trying to position at the moment.

With two more sensors I needed much more wiring to the engine (both MAP and TPS need three wires) so I needed a total of 5 pairs. I hate odd wires around the car, and have previously cleaned out everything that previous owners have flimsily laid around the cabin and up front. Also, it would be nice to easily be able to disconnect the sensors in the event of an engine drop. I decided to get a 5 pair cable that was temperature resistant, and hook it up to some automotive connectors in the engine room. A bunch of connectors lying loose is not much better, so I casted together four connectors (two 2-pin and two 3 pin) into a single connector block. Then I made a clamp of some scrap alu profiles I had, and screwed that next to the shock tower. The harness for to the individual sensors are twisted wires and shrink tubed.

Not bad for a days work. I'm pretty happy with the result. The clamp could use some improvement, but it will do for now.

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Nice work!

I forgot a picture from under the passenger seat. Not as tidy as before, but I needed an extra sensor reference ground block for all the sensors.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1392672060.jpg