Incoming! Kokeln I/C "charge air cooler" - questions on install

jwasbury · 06-15-2009, 09:20 AM

I'm starting a movement to use the 'proper' factory terminology

. Yes. A new charge air cooler is on the way. I've got a Kokeln coming in for my '79. The plan is to have it installed next weekend in time for Turbopalooza.

I have looked over many threads on the Kokeln install, including this write up on a Rennlist member's page.

http://members.rennlist.com/magisterc/kokeln.html

I know that I'm losing the factory recirc assembly. My specific question relates to the decel valve. This thing lives on the recirc assembly. For those that have BTDT, are you tossing out the decel valve when you install the Kokeln? Maybe you tossed it before getting the new charge air cooler? Has anyone kept it after ditching the factory recirc assembly? If so, how did you do the plumbing and mounting? I know that most people seem to like yanking it, and the sound of firecrackers that ensues. I've run my car both ways and prefer to leave the decel valve.

pkracer21j · 06-15-2009, 05:30 PM

I've run without one since 2002...you'l have a nice burble/crackle on decel without it. I will say make sure you have it seated perfectly front and back and do a good hard shake down...it'll blow an o ring or pop off of its seat quickly if its not perfect.

A930Rocket · 06-15-2009, 05:38 PM

I followed those same directions years ago. I ended up replacing the threaded rods with new slightly longer pieces to give me more to screw the nut down on. Ordered a 3'-4' piece from McCaster-Carr (sp?). You may also want to replace the Intercooler rubber washers while you are in there.

jwasbury · 06-15-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkracer21j

you'l have a nice burble/crackle on decel without it.

Yes, I know. I ran it like that for 6 months, then put the decel valve back in the loop. I actually prefer less crackle. Seems like I might be in the minority though.

pkracer21j · 06-16-2009, 05:17 PM

turn your CO mixture screw about an 8th of a turn clockwise and the burble becomes more subdued. burble is rich, crackle pop is lean(rough guideline)

jwasbury · 06-16-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkracer21j

turn your CO mixture screw about an 8th of a turn clockwise and the burble becomes more subdued. burble is rich, crackle pop is lean(rough guideline)

Hmmn...if anything, at this point I think I'd want to lean it out, not richen it up. At least that what my AFR gauge is telling me.

The decel valve bypasses the throttle plate and allows more air into the combustion chamber when my foot is off the go pedal. More air = leaner, and in my experience, also makes the snap crackle 'n pop go away, leaving a more subdued "burble"

Your results may vary.

jwasbury · 06-19-2009, 02:20 PM

Picked up the Kokeln today. Looks beefy!

I got the full kit which is a little different than what I've seen posted here and on Rennlist. The kit I received comes with the entire C2 turbo intake (from CIS meter housing all the way to compressor inlet)...I'm thinking that this is a good thing.

I am now visualizing the install. The factory I/C has two fittings on the passenger side, one for the AAR and one for the AAV. The Kokeln seems to be set up only for one (the AAR I suppose). What should I do with the AAV, plug it and forget it?

pkracer21j · 06-19-2009, 06:08 PM

you may be right...I don't work on my car unless I'm drinking...tends to make my memory a bit fuzzy.

jwasbury · 06-20-2009, 09:00 AM

Working the install today. I need to remove the stock inlet plumbing that goes from the factory recirc assembly, through the tin, and into the compressor inlet. How the F@$% do you get this mother off? Let me guess: remove engine from car? Any tips before I start tearing this thing completely apart to remove 1 stinkin' piece?

pkracer21j · 06-20-2009, 10:02 AM

It comes out through the bottom...you have to kind of twist it in a 180 as you pull it out through the bottom.

jwasbury · 06-20-2009, 04:18 PM

Haven't even started fitting the intercooler...this was supposed to be easy.

My issue at the moment is getting the 965 intake fitted. Here you can see the new piece next to the original:

Intercooler waiting on the bench

Here is the intake

Another angle

At this point my roadblock seems to be this sucker. This elbow appears to be sized for the stock turbo and for the life of me I can't get it on to my K27 compressor inlet:

Anyone been down this road have any suggestions? I thought the 965 came with a K27, so it seems odd that the elbow is sized for the 3LDZ. I noticed it has a 930 part number on it though...couldn't tell you what # cause it rubbed off since I've been struggling with it for hours now. Help me pelican parts turbo forum, you're my only hope. Will be putting the factory intercooler back in if I can't figure this out QUICK!

pkracer21j · 06-20-2009, 04:24 PM

how far off is it? could you try a little dish soap and get it over the compressor housing. thats what I had to do on mine...I f****d with mine for probably an hour before i got it.

jwasbury · 06-20-2009, 05:12 PM

I suppose I could give dish soap a try. So you've done this same deal? You have a K27? Its a 3" inlet...the stock turbo is 2.5 or 2.75" can't remember which.

Either way I'm done for the night. If I keep going, I'm going to get mad and beat something with my BFH (and regret it later).

x98boardwell · x98boardwell's Garage

Please show us pics of how that intake travels through the engine tin and how it looks up next to the K27.

I am interested to see how that pipe travels in that area beneath the tin.

Thanks,
Bryan

jwasbury · 06-20-2009, 05:38 PM

Brian,

The pipe protrudes only an about an inch below the tin...then the elbow gets you from the pipe to the compressor inlet. I've circled the end that sticks out below the tin in the attached photo. There's just enough jutting through to attach the elbow

I'll try to post some pics assuming I get the stupid elbow to fit. I just checked PET and the elbow for the 965 is a 930 part number 930 110 259 00 to be exact. Its an expensive sucker...special order over $200 from our host

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

You have taken on a difficult but rewarding task.
The 965 plumbing is superior to the 930 as you can clearly see. Unfortunately the 930 was not designed for it. The 965 has a relief built in to the corner where you are having all of the trouble. Installing it with the engine in the car only compounds the issue.
The difference in inlet sizing for the 3LDZ vs the K27 is the ID and is not significant at the OD. The elbo should fit but it is tight (which is good once on). Lube it with silicone grease or a film of dishwashing liquid. Pre-fit it to the turbo before mounting to the elbow so it will stretch a little. Pre-fit it also to the elbo as well. Lastly you have to hang all the clamps loose in the middle of the elbow while trying to fit both ends. I use a very thin blade screwdriver to help get the hose started. Once started it will pop on a little at a time. A lot of patience is required to get both ends on. Very similar to the big elbow that goes from the stock BOV housing to the air metering housing.

pkracer21j · 06-21-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwasbury

I suppose I could give dish soap a try. So you've done this same deal? You have a K27? Its a 3" inlet...the stock turbo is 2.5 or 2.75" can't remember which.

Either way I'm done for the night. If I keep going, I'm going to get mad and beat something with my BFH (and regret it later).

Been there, done it. Had the same problem with my GT35 when I had the comp. inlet turned down to 3"...then that turbo let go at 12k miles, and had the same problem with my new CT61. with some dishwashing soap, a small 90 degree pick/scribe, and an hours worth of swearing and bud light, it goes on.

jwasbury · 06-21-2009, 09:33 AM

First of all, to all those who claimed the Kokeln I/C is an easy install (including my old college buddy in NH), you guys are liars.

Well, I finally got the 965 intake fitted...barely. Sure hope nothing leaks because there is not even a mm of wiggle room. Here's how she looks:

Much cutting of the engine tin required here. Used probably 10 dremel cutting wheels.

So...on to the next phase of this struggle. Getting the I/C in. Everything lines up ok it seems, but I can't get the long neck to plug into the throttle body. The bottom of the unit is hitting on the fan housing stap securing bolt. Tried to show it in these pics:

I want to just rotate the strap so the the bolt is off to the side which (I hope) should gain me the necessary clearance. Seems like I should be able to do this, but the f-n strap doesn't want to be rotated...anyone done this?

The IC will basically be resting on top of the fan housing when all is said an done.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

See that spot where you have 1mm of clearance? That is where the 965 has a relief built in. Too late now but a couple of smooth hammer blows in that area help.
No good news on the fan strap. It is not round but has a flat section, which is why it does not want to move. You can move it but need to put the bolts in loose and move it as one unit. I have tapped it with a flat punch which moved it in small increments.

jwasbury · 06-21-2009, 01:22 PM

Alright. I think I give up. Looks like I may be going back to stock

.

Rotated the fan strap...yup. Royal pain. Fought with it for 45 minutes with little success, then just pulled the entire fan assembly so I could have at the flat areas which were hanging it up.

Sooooo. Where am I now? Maybe the spacers are too long, but it seems that they are standing the IC far enough away from the throttle body that there is no possibility of a proper seal. No matter what I do, the freakin' long neck will not fully engage with the throttle body. I used lube...makes not one bit of difference. With or without the spacers that sucker just won't pop on to the throttle body. What else? It looks like the decklid isn't going to close either. I suppose I'd need to remove the factory shrouding, but even then I'm worried.

So to sum up. 2 full days "bolting it up" and I'm thinking about whether or not I can get my $$ back.