My EFI conversion method
 

I know there are many ways to get injector support hardware onto a 930. The two most simple ways are an injector block that replaces the stock injector mounts/blocks and the 3.2 manifold. The injector blocks are available from several sources with pricing that starts about $1000. a Carrera manifold is slightly cheaper but then there is the added expense of putting new rubber in the fuel rails and most likely plumbing a new intercooler as the stock system does not fit. Either way, its money that has to be spent.

So I thought I would come up with a cost effective method for adding EFI to a stock injector block. Some of you might have a spare set of these lying around. You might also have a willingness to drill and tap them one size larger. You see the stock threads are too small diameter to support an EFI injector. But an M12 thread gets you something like this...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1361249956.jpg

I have several sets made. The cost is considerably cheaper than other systems. Out the door will be less than $300 including fuel rails. I will also consider modifying your stock blocks on an exchange basis.

When combined with some long tip injectors ( I like the Seimens Deka) this offers an alternative solution to EFI injector installation. You can remove all of the CIS system and run EFI on an otherwise stock manifold.

I will have more updates with the adapters come back from the platers. Consider a set for your next EFI project.

Put me down for a set.

How is the spray pattern with that adapter? What is the optimal spray for 930 heads?

I did not find it necessary to make any adaptor with the newer Siemens (now Continental) Deka VI injectors, which are slimmer and have an extended nozzle tip (see pics). This result was not achieved with hand drilling. It was on a milling machine. I would use new injector blocks, as the plastic warps over time and makes the surfaces non-parallel.

THE DOWNSIDE WITH THIS APPROACH IS THAT YOU CANNOT ENLARGE THE PORT DIAMETER. The metal injector blocks, while heavy, do permit larger port diameters.

When making a rail, be sure to include two different methods for securing the injectors to the rail. I like to use the stock clips to secure the injector to the rail, and the method shown in the picture to hold the injectors in the engine. This provides fuel system integrity on par with production vehicles.

The injector cone angle should be around 15 to 20 degrees, depending on port diameter. Do not use a pencil spray. Injection timing is more important than any tweeking of angle beyond this range. DO NTO USE INJECTORS FROM FOUR VALVE ENGINES. They almost always have twin pencil sprays, which just spray fuel on our port walls. They will work, but not that great.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1361265181.jpg

Speedy Squirrel,

What about injectors from a Dodge SRT Charger?

Very cool Jamie! I look forward to meeting you someday soon and talking further about EFI, I have followed all your related threads with great interest.
Yasin

Why not???

I increased mine a couple years ago in my CIS days on a lathe. Not sure about how much, think it was 36mm

That was per Chris at Turbokraft. Based on your experience. It appears he is mistaken. Walls must have been pretty thin though.

A good choice.

I agree that boring the injector threads for a press fit is a great option. Not every DIY enthusiast has access to equipment to make this happen. To drill and tap an existing hole is within the capability of most people doing a home EFI install.

You do make some great suggestions. Yes, the "Hemi" injectors are a great choice. The 5.4 or 6.2L application have some flow rates that match well with most power targets for these cars with normal bolt-ons.

Porting is an interesting subject. I have seen some nice numbers on non-ported heads. If you are wanting to port the heads and need a larger injector block these may not be the answer. But if you just want the drivability and fuel control of EFI in an otherwise stock setup I think this is a great solution.

No wonder we haven't heard from you in awhile; just whittlin' away on your project.

Yes Cory. Never a dull moment around my place. :)

Most of the time has been getting the 914 back on the road. Its running well. Just need plates and tires to get it out and fine tune.

Awesome. Good luck!

Stock plastic CIS injector blocks are prone to cracking and warping, even with standard 32mm bore and standard thickness walls.
The factory bored them to 36mm on some S/SE engines, and they failed sooner still.
Try to go larger, and the walls get really thin.
Somewhere in the shop we have a ported one that blew the side out at 1.0bar boost.

Thus aluminum injector blocks and thermal insulators. No more warping or cracking.

I used them bored for a couple of years without any issue. Maybe the age of the blocks are a factor too. But no doubt, risk is higher and I can only agree to your statement Chris

PS: I have to say (as a lightweight fetish), the aluminum blocks are a lot heavier:D

Jamie, put me down for a modded set. That will likely hold me for a few years until I can afford Chris's mack daddy IC's to use with my dust covered carrera intake.

Can they work with the 3.2 intake and OEM rails?

No need for these with a 3.2 intake. Just install the injectors and use the factory rails.

Everyday one have a moment of stupidity. Really, I don't know what I was thinking about when I made this question... :confused:
Sorry but, anyway I hope somebody is still laughing at it :D
Promised: I will not make stupid questions like this again...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/nono.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/nono.gif

Stupid comment coming up :)

Or you could use them with the Carrera manifold to be able to use stacked injectors. Didn't RUF do that on the yellow bird.

I know things have improved, but that way you could maybe obtain a better idle with quite a large flow capacity.

Slightly OT, but just a thought.

Btw, this injector block idea is great!

No problem on the questions. There are many that do not understand EFI installations and converting while mix and matching various systems and components.

Jesper,

Yes, this could be an easy way to run a secondary injector setup. I am not sure if the Carrera manifold would clear the rear deck with an intercooler when mounted on top of some blocks. Maybe if you cut and rotated the throttle body. But then you are doing enough custom work you might as well weld some bungs in place.

The idea for this adapter is to make EFI integration as simple as possible with as little hardware changes as possible. Thanks for the compliment.

This is a great solution. I was wondering if anyone has ever attempted this.
Are the existing brass fittings pressed out or just drilled larger to accept the bung?
Is it better to go with 11mm bung or 14mm bung. Guess it depends on type of injector to be used.

Crap, and I just sold my spare set to speedy! Oh well....

JCC911, now you made me feel bad! If it is any consolation, yours are staying stock. I kept all my other stock stuff in the event a stock 930 becomes stratospherically valuable some day.

By the way JCC911's blocks have cracks (which he of course told me about before the deal), so that, plus Chris' comments re-affirm my statement not to bore them out.

The brass insert remains in the holder. It is either drilled and tapped a size larger for my adapters or drilled for direct insertion of the injector.

Either method could be used. My adapter allows for easy home installation. Not many people have the expensive step drill bit to recess the injector as Speedy Squirrel did. I do have this bit for making fuel rails. If you would like some help in that direction let me know.

These are finally back from the platers. Ready for an engine near you.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365685114.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365685310.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365685330.jpg

Looks good Jamie! Can't wait to hear someone use these.

Where do I sign up?

With the flow rates of modern injectors, and a modern ECU's ability to finely control them, what is the purpose of stacked injectors?

Do you need more fuel than 6x 2,000cc injectors can provide at 5-6bar of pressure?

If your comment is directed towards me suggesting this, you forgot to read my intro: "stupid comment..."

I do however realize ( as stated) things have improved greatly since some of RUFs early work. All one have to do is study some of the exquisite projects on this site...Apart from that, I dont know crap about, what I am talking about :)

Nice to see you got some time to spend on the forum again :)

Yup, but not picking on you or anything. :-)
The old-school stacked injectors looked cool, and solved the problem when really large injectors were not available. Who was making 600+hp back then in a road car? Supercars had 450hp!

Just as a point of reference: a 3.8L Twin Turbo can idle perfectly smooth and at a clean 15:1 at 850-900rpm with modern 2,000cc injectors.

This looks like a fantastic solution. I'll be watching!

Any news on these Injector Blocks? I sent Jamie an email about 2 weeks ago no response.

He left for Germany IIRC on Monday. I believe he will be back next week.