turbo recomendations
 

Despite a rebuild at a local shop my 3LDZ it is still spiting and spattering oil all over the back of my 85 Targa. It has been great enjoying the new turbo power from my conversion, but since I will be replacing the turbo, a well priced alternative is in order. I'm running an otherwise stock 3.2L motor with a 930 J-pipe, a Begi regulator, and a MSD retard on boost unit. My goals are a reliable streetable 300 to 375 Hp on .5 to .75 Bar boost. I'm not looking to run it up to 7000rpm every other shift so I'd like boost to start at 3000rpm or lower. Of course my budget is limited, so under $1000 would be good but around $500 would be better. Can I get there with a K27 or would something like a T3 60 work better?

I am no expert but with a fresh 3LDZ it sounds like youd be able to hit your goal.

I think a call to Brian at Rarlyl8 and Chris at TurboKraft would be immensely helpful in turbo selection.

In your price range it will be a used one.
I guess your cams are SC/3.2 Carrera profile and you have 8.5:1 compression ratio so a used 3K K27 7200 or UMW K27S that's in good condition would probably work well for you.

Garrets are nice and more efficiant than K27's but I think you'll have to do some adaptations to the oil line to fit one of those. I think new ones are over $1000 and then add the oil line and oil restricter so again you're looking at used ones.

If you want to keep it simple, relatively low cost, and reliable a good used K27 would work well.

If you want more than the boost levels you mentioned, you can use a T66.

How are you dealing with the return oil from your freshly rebuilt 3LDZ? Turbo might be fine, and return oil flow not so fine.

Look at larger Borg Warner S200 series turbos or smaller S300's. Around $600 brand new.

The BW S366 (66mm good to 750-800hp) will be my next turbo. Can get for $625 all day long.

Anything else and you're wasting money and spool. ;)

Agree with Speedy....also depending on who rebuilt it with which parts the turbo will flow oil differently. You have to match scavenging/return and supply. Hence I've seen restrictor balls and restrictor plates on inlet used successfully.

Where did your local shop source the rebuild kit for the 3LDZ? We stopped handling these when the Asian knock-offs infiltrated BW with junk kits.
Oiling on the Carrera conversions can be an issue if not using the 930 system which includes the small ball bearing, and properly evacuating the sump.
There are lots of ricer turbos that will fit your engine in your price range. A nice used GT30 or K27-7200 would hit your power vs lag goals.

For oil feed I am using the factory 930 fittings with the ball bearing and a 1.5 mm restrictor at the turbo for supply and a 10AN line from the turbo drain to the engine sump at the oil dain plug location. The 3LZ was rebuilt using a kit from Melett, a UK company that this shop uses regularly. They have done a good job in the past for me on Marine turbos and injectors. I have an electric scavenge pump sitting on the shelf and I could order up some more AN fittings and Plumb it in for a test but I would rather not be running a pump all the time if it wasn't completely necessary. I looked at the maps for BW S300 series and at .5 to .75 bar you never really make it onto the map. I admit I don't know how important that is but it is something to think about.

3LDZ = obsolete, genuine components are NLA from 3K-Warner.

Aftermarket rebuild kits are typically junk. Ex: a max bearing tolerance may be 3.7, and the new replacement bearing measures at 5.0. Useless -- you're assembling a new worn-out turbo.

To assemble a genuine 3LDZ rebuild kit, you have to purchase 3 separate kits. So properly remanufacturing a 3LDZ gets expensive. We only do maybe 1x/month, and it's only worth it if it's an all-stock, all original 930.

Otherwise, upgrade and enjoy. Just about everything out-performs the 3LDZ.

<$1000 and closer to $500 -- look at a 57-trim. Cheap to buy, cheap to upgrade, cheap to rebuild.

Avoid eBay for turbo purchases! Lots of fake units on there.

No eBay..unless its your trusted blood brother.My " deal" blew up in 100 miles. Lodged a retaining nut somewhere in the intake then wrecked a second turbo when it was "found" again.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396662165.jpg

Try here for a $750, nice spooling, big power turbo (no firsthand, but have read lots of dyno graphs and good things about it):

Borg Warner / AGP S200sx_RS_56 Turbocharger - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store

If you search enough, probably could beat this price too. :)

$630:

Borg Warner S200SX 200 to 580 HP Turbo - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store

New = yummy. No worries.

eBay isn't the problem it's the vendors. I buy from eBay but I search abit to see what the product is and where it's from. There are some vendors I use often and know their quality. I like the true Borg Warner turbos (yes, there are copies but they are obvious). I know it's not a P-car but I'm running a S-363 over a S-475 compound setup on my Cummins. 60+ psi and no problems. They are very adaptable. The thing I do like about eBay and PayPal is you are protected with in 45 days of initial purchase. So it it's not what you thought you were getting they atleast fix it fast.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396717899.jpg

Of the four part numbers that come up here which do you think would work best for my goals 177257 with a .83 A/R turbine housing or the 177628 with the 1.22 housings. It would be interesting to see the maps. Another unit I was looking at was a BW T3/T4OE with the .82 A/R turbine housing.

Garrett T3/T04E Stage III Turbo 57 Trim 475 HP [GAR-STAGEIII-038] - $639.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, ACT, Intake

What mods do you have to your car?

Would this be any good?

porsche K27 K29 upgrade turbo turbocharger 550hp+ | eBay

I read K27/K29 hybrids cab be good but not seen a #13 hot side one before...

Big power but going to be lazy. Remember, ANY KKK That was used on all older turbo cars have old technology, heavy impeller shafts, and are not fast spooling. Going with newer turbos are definetly the way to go unless, as Chris stated, the car is all original and you want to keep it that way for value retension. But as far as performance, literally all newer design turbos will outperform the original turbos hands down.

I'm not sure about T3 platforms, only have T4 experience.

Others may chime in.

Just a funny story here if it is appropriate....A guy comes in this morning with an 87 930 to get some ideas and pricing. The 930 is beat to death with almost 200k on the clock. I put it on the rack and what did I see? A WSR GT3582R..... EBAY turbo! TIAL WG and an EBAY IC as well as some B&B headers and the rest all stock. He said he has had it on almost 2 years with no issues. I asked if I could drive it to see if I could find any of the issues he was talking about. Holy cow was that thing friggen' quick. Faster than the 89 I just got finished with all the usual bolt ons/w proper tuning. Ran like a top except a part throttle lean surge which I dialed out for him. Said he paid 350 bucks for that damn turbo and 2 years of use no problems. Spools like an SOB and sounds just like my garrett, I wonder whose cartridges they use? Anybody know?

I've built a bunch of custom import stuff using CX Racing turbos and intercoolers. The castings are really nice as well as the machining. I've seen really bad turbos that the metal was so soft and poorly machined it wasn't worth being a door stop. The Mustang crowd really like them an are making some crazy numbers. Do they perform equal to the real deal....no... But they are fairly close.

I've read some Cummins guys who tractor pull run these $2-300 turbos from eBay with mixed results. Some have taken 60+ PSI of boost (that's 4 bar ;) ) for years problem and some who only run like 20-25 PSI and grenade them immediately.

Total gamble and not the game we want to play!

Gamble is right.

I see Supras come in with knock-off ICs and intake manifolds, out-perform the $$$ name brands on the dyno during tuning.

But for every one of those "wins" there's about a dozen FAILS -- cr*p turbine housings that warp, compressor wheels that rub or warp, bearings that seize; manifolds warp, throttle body screws come out...

Gamble.

Funny you should mention CX racing and Mustangs. my neighbor here builds big power Mustangs and says he has about a dozen of the builds on the street, no failures and the weakest one is 600hp wheel. probably buying cartridges from a discount int. wholesaler the same ones we find in our upper end stuff. Don't know but I'm gonna find out. I ordered a CX and a WSR both GT3582R'S this morning for dissection/comparison tests..

Problem I've read about with these knock offs too is wheel liberation. Some of these have had wheels fly out of the housings and come through their hoods! That's scary right there!

I've decided to go with the Borg Warner SX200 turbo It looks great on the map and should spool early. BW sells it only as a T4 exhaust flange, but AGP Turbo has a T3 housing for it so it will bolt right up. List price it $750 The staff there were knowledgeable and helpful. I'm traveling for the next couple weeks but I'll get it installed ASAP and follow up with my impressions.

Borg Warner / AGP S200sx_RS_56 Turbocharger - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store

I think that will be a great match. Can't wait to hear your results!

Yep:

"The BorgWarner AirWerks S Series turbos aren't to be confused with the old T series turbos. These AirWerks units are carefully developed turbos for high performance applications. They are 20+ years more advanced than T turbos & are found on many of the top high performance street & race cars world wide. Direct-Fit interchange compatibility with T series turbos, the S series turbos spool much faster & yield more HP. Extremely durable, reliable, cost effective with superior performance & made in USA.

Extended Tip Technology (ETT) Select BorgWarner AirWerks turbos employ BorgWarner "S" generation compressor wheels that incorporate extended tip technology. This compressor wheel design feature promotes greater airflow using low inertia wheel that performs like a wheel of greater size & mass. Extended tip technology enables the user to have faster spool-up at lower engine speeds, while providing the boost for the powerful top-end performance that turbocharger enthusiasts have come to desire."

I think I'm more excited than you, but here's a tuner crowd who hit over 500whp on a ~2L 4-cylinder!:

Borg Warner S256 504 awhp opinions - DSM Forums

Following this with great interest as Well.

I don't know if it is possible to be more excited than I am. With the travel requirements for my job I am having to tamp my enthusiasm down. I am already scheming how I can postpone my Friday departure until Friday night and taking Friday off to install the turbo if things show up in time. We need to talk Megasquirt sometime, might be my next step.

Any time. If you want my email, just PM me. PM'ing MS info is impossible.

Cost, performance, durability, AND made in the USA? If so that is worth looking in to. The graph in the link shows full boost at 4000rpm which is not quick spooling by any standard. What are the characteristics when mounted on a 930?

Brian, that's a 4-cylinder I referred to. 4,000 in a 9,000 RPM engine potential is spectacular. These guys a lot of times run their engines to that number creating a very long power IMO.

On a side note, BW and Triple-K are one from my understanding, so having a Made in the USA and Triple-K connection makes it seem like the perfect unit for these cars.

Always good to see people trying out new things with these cars. We're messing with some of their EFR turbos, will post results when done.

BorgWarner is really trying to get back to a leadership position in the turbocharger market. It's amusing (to me, at least) that some of the features they tout as innovative are old-school tricks they've pulled out of the 3K-division's past portfolio:
- the twin scroll housing with 2 pronounced cast ridges along the outside looks a whole lot like the one made for the K36 from the 934/956/962
- the diverter/recirculation valve built into the compressor cover like the 931 featured
- the large v-band holding the housing, as used on a 930's 3LDZ...
Everything old is new again!
Teasing aside, they were smart enough to see good ideas that weren't being exploited, and combined it all together into a family of turbochargers (mixing in some best-of ideas from Holset and Garrett, too).

Umm, about that 29-32psi, umm, yeah... ;-)

Heard that too about BW claiming advancement with old technology, but it seems to work!

Yes having ties to BW/KKK is icing on the cake.
Is there data for the 930 application? Usable power to 6500rpm at low boost levels is what we require, not 30psi at 9000rpm crazy stuff.

Just so you guys know. BW is still making direct upgraded versions of the 3K turbos in K26, K27, K29's.
Turbo Specific - Borg Warner Turbos - K-Series - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store