The "Let's upgrade Jeff NJ's car" thread
 

So I am loving my 930 in its stock form, but I always knew I would fall prey to the mod bug, so I want to start putting together a build list of sorts and ask for input from all the experts here with all the vast knowledge you guys have acquired.

My car is an 88, 58k miles and is totally stock. Original Cali emissions, 3ldz turbo, OEM IC, etc. Clutch is replaced, but not sure what it is. Gotta look at the receipts that came with the car. I want to keep the upgrades to basically bolt ons, so if I ever sell, there is still the choice to return to stock or keep the upgrades. Certainly a debatable choice, but that is where my mind is at the moment. (I know, I know, it will probably change later and you can all say you told me so then!;))

The goal is earlier and quicker spool up and more power across the RPM range without sacrificing everyday drivability or reliability. I am not going to EFI. I do not have a BL WUR (tough to find now). I am getting historic plates, which in NJ means no emissions testing.

Here is what I am thinking:

Rarlyl8 headers and muffler with cat delete.
GT35 turbo
Tial WG with 1.0 bar spring
inter-cooler (not sure what yet)
MSD and coil.
AFR and boost gauge in the dash (PLX or similar)
CIS upgrades? not sure what I can or should do here. At what point does CIS cause problems due to not enough fuel?

This is probably a fall project, since I don't want to have the car in parts during the spring and summer and I just got the car in November, so driving it is more important now.

I will keep this thread updated as I build it for future reference to anyone else doing something similar. I want to dyno it before and after too, so I have actual proof of the improvements (or problems).

What say the experts? What am I missing? Any suggestions for a better combination of parts to get a good package together?
Happy to hear any and all opinions!

Since no post is good without pics, here she is freshly lowered (24.5-24.75 all around), and new RE-11's mounted.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1397621765.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1397621793.jpg

Jeff, some of your listed mods (turbo and 1 bar w/g spring for example) will mean that you will have to increase/alter fueling (aka: CIS mods). This would be easily done with an adjustable WUR/CPR, but unfortunately, no one is currently making those and they sell almost instantly when used ones come up (as you noted). I can't say what your options are other than to watch eBay and the PP classifieds like a rabid hawk!

The need for increased fueling with the above two mods is . . . the GT35 turbo will still be blowing hard (like Paul) at the top of the RPM range whereas the 3ldz is long out of breath by then, and the 1 bar spring increases the engine's effective compression ratio (and creates more intake heat) than the stocker, so more fuel is needed to lesson the possibility of detonation.

By the way, "keeping it stock" is for posers and pantywaists (except for installing 18" wheels as that's just gay)! :D

^reading comprehension FAIL^

no surprise, really

I'll reply w/ real thoughts later Jeff gotta run

Ronnie, I have been looking for a BL WUR with no luck yet.

If I don't find one, is that too big a turbo? Maybe a k27? Any other way to get enough fuel? Do I have any idea what I am talking about??

The primary reason for upgrading is so I am not a poser or pantywaist!:) I'm keeping the 16" Fuchs on the car until I can't buy tires for them...

Jeff, I can't intelligently answer the question about the turbo size - no doubt someone like Chris of TuboKraft, or Brian, will chime in on that - my comment about the turbo is that it is easy to run out of fuel at high RPM with a more powerful turbo (most any out there when compared to the 3ldz) and stock K-Jet/CIS settings (control pressures - particularly full throttle enrichment control pressure).

I saw you have plans for an onboard AFR meter, so at least you can monitor what is happening as you make mods.

I don't know of a way to DIY increase/decrease control pressures ("fine tune" style) without an adjustable WUR . . . I know that Brian (RarlyL8) has said that one can send their WUR to him, with instructions on where to set the various control pressures, and he will do it, but wow, that seems like a last ditch effort and you would have to have a lot of knowledge/experience about the relationship of control pressures to exhaust AFR and so forth - so much easier to do, real time, with an adjustable WUR and AFR meter. It really is a shame that Leask is not doing them anymore.

Good man! :D

Happy to help you put together a package that works with how you like to drive the car. Call, email, or PM.
There are other options besides the Leask WUR.
Intercooler: TurboKraft Inc : 930 High Performance Long-Neck Intercooler Package [930 LNIC TK] - $2,198.00

<a href="http://reactiongifs.me/filth-middle-finger/" title="filth middle finger"><img src="http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/James-McAvoy-filth-middle-finger.gif" alt="filth middle finger" title="Get more Reaction GIFs at http://reactiongifs.me" /></a>

PS - Jeff, let me know it that gif is offensive to you, or you simply don't want it stinking up your thread, and I will remove it and save my Paul pokes for his threads! :D

The mods you list were essentially my "round 1" of mods. What you describe would be transformative to the car as it drives now. To be honest, you can keep your stock parts but I assure you that you will never want to go back to them...

I would encourage you to speak with Chris @ TK. He is a very honest guy and won't try to sell you parts you don't need. He will shoot you straight.

The two things I would add to your list would be:

1) Upgrade both fuel pumps to Bosch 044's (Chris @ TK has the fittings to make this PnP) and do the fuel pump relay mod ASAP

2) WEVO shifter

Your initial list of items is great and you'll have a ball-buster fun time with the car afterward. It will be straight giggle time when you hit the gas!

Kind regards,

Chris.

What does an adjustable WUR look like? i may have one of them spare

nothing to add other than you are walking a well trodden path...use caution

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1397663834.gif

Your car will be more fun to drive for sure with these mods, and you should most definitely get with Chris at TurboKraft. I have his intercooler on my car, amongst other things, and it looks great(anodized black for the semi-stock look), and performs great as well.
As far as the turbo is concerned, if you run good headers, the k27-7200 is terrific, spools up quick, and is a direct bolt on with no fitment issues. The WUR is your biggest problem, does anyone know what happened to Mr. Leask? I sent mine to him 9 months or so ago for a rebuild and to make it adjustable. All of a sudden he's totally off the grid?
Your car will be a ball of fun to drive though, but as the graphic above states... once it's starts, it doesn't stop...

Definitely going to speak with Chris and Brian before I spend a dime.

I have no intention of going back to stock. With the market going up, I just think keeping the ability to go back may help in the future. Maybe not. Who knows. At least it will limit how much I can spend on upgrades!


What is the "fuel pump relay mod"? Can someone point me in the right direction to some posts about it?

The Wevo shifter is already on the list to be done before I do anything to the engine. In fact, I just got the PSJ installed last night (boy was the old one shot) and a certain member may be selling his slightly used shifter and offered to let me know if he liked the replacement and was willing to part with it! :D

Thanks Chris!

I have a few mods and it transformed the car. You will certainly not look back.
A stock 930 is kinda slow IMO.

Great looking car.

Looking for a WUR also. :)

Thanks!

The line for a BL WUR starts right behind me! :D

Every time I punch in TurboKrafts number into my phone I think of this:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/697565412...hrj9o1_500.gif

In the last month I have almost hit the dial button 4 times before I recovered my sanity.

^^^That gif is great!

Hint, hint...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/804437-b-b-930-intercooler.html

There seems to be demand for the BL WUR, maybe he'll open up for business again sometime in the near future... Your car is beautiful btw! Good luck!

Your car is to nice to be touched...Its going to cost you a lot of $$$$$$ like spanky- says above.. leave it alone...If not, sell it for top dollar

Get a GT3RS or 997TT-Chip & Exhuast. (jmonp)


GL

See posts #2 and #4 - Jeff is safeguarding both his manhood and his car-enthusiast-hood by going down the mod path - pity you want him to do otherwise! :D

LOL!!! That's right!

I just bought a G50/01 for my car so I am swapping gear boxes entirely. I will be removing the shifter very soon!

The fuel pump mod can be found here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/575052-930-fuel-pump-fuse-overload-solution.html

You may want to check that out!

Chris.

^^^^^^
Speaking about- FPR-URO-(Daniel) Sent me Red-fuel pump relay- a couple of weeks ago, after I said it failed within weeks. I posted my review on the 911-tech-forum area. I got an e-mail- URO-Daniel sending me a new version ( was skeptical)--sent to my office.. Arrived 1.5 weeks later in a big-URO-box- Have tested the FPR- for the past 2 weekends...So far so good and not warm to the touch after shutting it down.

PS-Jeff leave the car alone.. :) Even though I luv upgrades, you need to find a great mechanic and not break the wallet at the same time....Wait--I'm wrong....It will break the wallet no matter what.

No love? :-(

Just kidding, those gifs are hilarious!

Asbury's car has made me a huge fan of Venetian Blue.

WUR -- there are other options for adjusting them, and what you're proposing just isn't that radical. I think we must have about 15-20 cores, so your WUR stays all original. Everything you've listed is bolt-on, 100% reversible should you be overcome with the need to remove 170hp/170tq and linear drivability from your 930.

Chris, you bring up a good question that I have been wondering about. Based on the parts that I mentioned, is +170hp/170tq a reasonable outcome? I understand that there are a lot of variables, so nothing is ever guaranteed, but is that the ballpark? It is actually more than I was thinking it would be.

As for WUR's, are you saying that you could adjust it based on my needs or that you can make it adjustable so that anytime I modify, I can adjust as necessary, ala BL? The local porsche shop here in NJ, Powertech, doesn't like messing with them.

Mine's Minerva Chris...only available in the disco era:cool:
http://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/My...DSC_0404-L.jpg

^^^ I LOVE that color Jacob.

Sorry, Jacob! Brain fade.

Yes, that's a fair ballpark from our experience, running 1.05bar boost, 93-octane.

Yes, your WUR (or a donor one) can be adjusted. Not fun, not as easy as the Leask one.

This is sound advice, i was unable to follow it though with my car.

You can't ignore the present market, I'd keep it close to stock.
Lowered, aligned, stock engine w just an exhaust, permatune Cdi n coil,bilstein shocks n inserts, strut bar, steering wheel and a modern stereo.
Al, your car is perfect!

Your forgetting Chris i gutted out the entire emissions "system", no more intermediate manifold since i went long neck. That meant the stock shroud was cut larger. The new turbo required some engine tin cutting to get the 965 down pipe to meet it. changed oil lines and wastegate plus headers also. No longer bone stock. Plus i painted flames on the hood.

Not so sure about that, hoss, I seem to be ignoring it just fine, and Paul has extended it two tall middles! :D

- flames RULE! ;-)

- I'm understanding you have a 965 IC, so I can see having to mod the shroud.
For our Longneck IC, we remove the stock shroud altogether, put it in a box with the stock IC.

- you are correct -- bigger diameter turbos do require modding the rear engine tin for the revised compressor outlet (enlarge factory hole).
Thanks for the reminder, that slipped my mind. Must be coffee-o-clock...

But headers, muffler, WG, oil lines... all bolt-on, removable. Stock smog nonsense could be reinstalled if required.

Not bone stock, but I'll wager it's a far better driver.

I have the Kokeln long neck Chris, so i cut the shroud off in two areas and shaved it in the other two, not perfectly sealed but somewhat sealed. After a boost event if if feel the up pipe to intercooler area it is warm and if i feel the neck going into the throttlebody it is cool, so it is cooling the air well. By the way the turbo i use was purchased from you by another poster. I obtained it from him in a trade and i like it alot.

Jeff, re: header choice, I suggest you think hard on whether you want decent heat in your car for the bookends of the northeast driving season, and choose accordingly. The performance of the available systems may be within a few percentage points of each other for a build such as yours, but the heat is not.

So this is a good conversation and a good point to debate, based on what the market is doing to these cars (especially older ones than mine). A few have made the valid point that stock is where its at when it comes to high dollar resale for a desired collectible car. I agree with that. Of course, the other side is that this car was made to be driven, and adding HP and making it more fun to drive is what it is all about. I agree with that too.

What I am trying to do is to have my cake and eat it too. My plan is to only do basically bolt on mods (exhaust, turbo, WG, IC, etc) Everything I do would be able to be 100% undone back to bone stock. If I can get 150hp to make this car silly fast and silly fun, while still being able to pull it all off and sell it as stock and then sell all the parts if that is where the market is (if I ever sell), what is the downside? I paid $44k for the car 4 months ago. Hagerty says it is worth a lot more than that already. I don't see values dropping, so as long as I don't wreck it, and am able to return it to stock, I don't see me losing money, but that is not why I bought the car anyway. I've wanted this car since I was 12yrs old and I didn't buy it to make money off it. If I can drive it, mod it, and make money if I ever sell, I win. Right?

Love hearing opinions about this!

But give me more opinions on my mod options too!

Heat is definitely a necessity here. I have not done a lot of research on the heat exhangers. Are there headers with really bad heat XC's? Never thought of that, since the OEM heat isnt great to begin with... Are there any comparisons available or any info for me to consider with regards to heat?

Jeff my opinion is get a long neck intercooler, bigger turbo, aftermarket muffler with a bung welded to so you can install an AFR gauge so you know how rich or lean you are running at idle, cruise and boost and then tune properly, maybe even buy an adjustable warm up regulator. Then read about Short Tube Headers and Equal Length Tuned Headers and decide what is best for your needs. JMHO

Hmmm. Never considered not getting headers right off the bat. What is the benefit of waiting?

But that does bring up a good point. Assuming I don't buy everything at once, what would be the general order of upgrades? What can wait till later and what really cant?

The best heat options are bb and fabspeed. More than balances minimal gains from equal length tubes. Remember, the 935 race cars all had short tube headers.
Keep it to simple boltons, that's the way to go.
Order; muffler, ic, headers, turbo....

Well first i have read here that people have gotten some pretty good numbers with the stock headers (not the old style ones, they're garbage). Plus i went headers last since i wanted to bolt on my new turbo and fabricate the mounting plate to the stock position of the factory header flange. Sometimes that flange on aftermarket headers can be off a little and now when you mount your turbo to it the up pipe can be way off in position meeting the intercooler. JMHO