Modified 3.3 L turbo Not starting
 

I inherited a heavily modified Porsche That after spending a good amount of money getting it running After it sitting in storage for years has recently stopped. Car was running excellent and then started running rough and died the mechanic that did the work on it to get it running told me he was sure it was the rear pump so I installed a new rear pump now it wants to crank it but will not start. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm having very mixed feeling about the car and just want to get it back up and running.

Thanks again
Mike

Mike more info is needed. Does it crank? Did you check your battery? Is the starter new or the original one? Did you check for any vacuum leaks! So many variables...but it also could be something very simple...oh and what mods are on the car?

New battery, starters good, no vacuum leaks, it does crank but will not catch. I did find a loose fuse in the fuse box took care of that now found that I do have a leak at the new rear pump fixing that right now.

As for the modifications to the car, I do not know all of the details as I was very young when this car came to be But it started as a 3.3 turbo Ported polished, group B cams, twin intercooled a good amount of custom/one off parts, Adjustable boost control up to 2.0 bars, The car has a very interesting history. Makes north of 600 hp. Once I get it going again I think I'm going to end up selling it.

first thing is to check for spark. pull a plug wire and put a sparkplug on it and ground it. crank it and check for spark. you could also use a timing light on one of the wires while cranking.

make sure both pumps run.
reach around behind the air flow meter (AFM) on the left side. there is a plug in the back near the top, remove it and turn the key on. check that both run. just leave this off for now if you want to.

while th ekey is on, press down on the mixture adjusting rod, (or remove the air cleaner and push down on the sensor plate), to out some fuel into the engine, then crank again. the plate should be hard to push down.

make sure you do not have any air leaks. if the IC's are not bolted down good they can blow off.

more to come if this does not work.

Post pics when you get a chance also check out this sticky http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/547032-sticky-common-answers-why-my-car-doesnt-start.html

Just a hunch, but I think that your "no start" condition is going to be fuel related. Sitting for that long, the fuel system is sure to be gummed up.

Fuels system has been went through ( new tank, lines, relays, pumps, injectors)

All of this is assuming it's a CIS fueled car, and hasn't been converted to electronic fuel injection. At 600hp, I bet it's no longer CIS.

What brand of electronic fuel injection does it have?

I have to apologize, I will try to answer the best I can, I'm a porsche newbie.

I believe it has a Bosch motronichttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405371594.jpg

Here's one of the enginehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405371725.jpg

One more,

I had to go pick up family at the air port so troubleshooting will have to wait until tomorrow

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405371836.jpg

It is definately not cis. It is likely motronic.

It does have a carerra intake and the rest looks pretty custom.

Check your fuel pump relay. Make sure your fuel pumps work as suggested above. Check the fuses for your motronic system.

Rotate your fuses in their holders. Sometimes from sitting the euro fuse ends oxidize a bit and don't make electrical contact.

Mitchell. I noticed you are in fla. Which part? I will be back in town on wed and maybe give you a hand. I'm in west palm

As an aside, interesting 959 bodywork to go with the engine mods.

Good luck getting your car sorted.

Thank you but I'm just out side of Orlando in Montverde.

I will go over the fuses again today and need to fix the leak on the new fuel pump as well. And go over some things again that were mentioned above.

What drives me nuts is it was running great I cam home parked it 3 days later cranked it up to idle for 5-7 mins, 3 days later did the same ( never moved it either time) them a couple of days after that I cranked it up and drove it 15ft out of the garage to take some pictures and this started :-( it's driving me nuts

I want to thank you all for your time and help so far I greatly appreciate it

Mike

(this suggestion will make the Cookie Monster dude here have a coronary, but...) ^this gem of info^ is telling

try this:

turn car over with your foot to the floor, and as it turns, pump the hell out of the pedal vigorously

report back

how about some more about the interesting history, interior pics, etc?

agreed, interesting 959 conversion...

I understand that you have changed out a number of fuses and relays.. but as most have said, it sounds fuel related.

If the car is still running the Bosch Motronic system, was the DME relay replaced? If not, do so.. if so then check to ensure it is properly seated. It is the black relay next to the Motronic box under the drivers seat..

Also, after turning the car over a couple of times, you can check to see if the fuel is reaching the injectors by cracking the nut loose on the end of the fuel rail.. it should weep or give a pressurized spritz depending upon how quickly you open it.

"Ischmitz" can test out your unit if it's the problem.

Sorry for the delay, work and visiting family has consumed the week.

Fuel is reaching the fuel rails, I have a spark at the plugs, I don't have a DME relay anywhere and the motronic is under the pass seat.

I tried cranking it with the gas pedal down with no change.

I'm about ready to give up and sell it as is :-(

I am not familiar with the motronic system, but as a rule of thumb motors need 3 things to start. Fuel, Air, and Spark. Fuel is reaching the rails, but are the injectors firing? Spray some starter fluid into the intake and see if it starts.

You're running Motronic, w/AFM.. but there is no DME relay?
- then how id the DME (Motronic unit) getting its signal?


Also, have you checked the reference sensor at the flywheel.. again no signal/no start.

As for the car.. what is it built on exactly?
- A mid year, SC, Carrera, 930, ?
- What suspension and brakes underneath etc?
- Any interior pics?

Thx

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is what I subscrib to. Three things that you need for an engine to run (fuel, air, spark)
You obviously have air.... you said that you have spark at the plugs.... then the only thing left is fuel! You injectors are more than likey, not firing. Why?? As Onboost stated above, Is the ECU seeing a signal at the crank? ( the ECU need this to calculate engine RPM, as well as engine position.

Take the passenger seat out (not more than a 30 minute job) and take some pictures of what you have mounted there. Alos, are the plugs wet with fuel if you take them out?? If so, then the injectors may befiring, but... if the engine is SO far out of time, then you might not be able to get it fired off...

Dont give up!!!!!

What does the ref sensor look like?

I will post some pics this evening it won't let me from my phone

It's built on a '77 SC, the car was in Germany when my father purchased it, it was then disassembled and brought over here and put back together on a 77 SC chassis ( that was modified ), I was 8-9 at the time and remember watching it come together. ( as a note, I have no documents to verify the history of the car at this stage
In its life)

As for the Suspension It has coil overs ( ill post pictures this evening )


Thanks again
Mike

I will, how can I check to see if the injectors are firing?

Plugs are not wet.

It was perfect then out of the blue here I sit its very frustrating

Mike

Try this... This will give most of the armchair mechanics on this board an anurism... Give it a 5 second whiff of starting fluid. (Count to 5 when you spray this directlyinto the airbox) NO MORE and then start it immediately.

Another thought is that you might consider jump starting it. Some ecu's need 11.6 volts to start. You may have enough power there to spinthe car over and get spark but the injectors may not be firing. We ran ointo this on our race car at laguna seca 5 minutes before the race...

Here are some pictures as requested while I wait to try some of the new suggestions http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405715706.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405715801.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405715862.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405715931.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405715975.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405716156.jpg

Well, I need some starter fluid and I can't find our jumper cables so it will have to wait until tomorrow. If I cant figure this out this weekend I may just put it on the market as is.

Jumper cables gave me nothing, I have not went to get starter fluid yet

As I go to pull spark plugs out and the first ones lead on top comes off and for the life of me I can't get the plug to loosen.

Finally got the plug out going to replace them all while I'm at it

This looks like a mixture of some creative thinking and good workmanship, but a few things that could definite be improved upon. Some of the electrical connections are sub-standard and they sometimes get loose.. it only takes one connection to screw up and you have a no fire situation. Looking at your under seat wiring and wondering if this might have happened. It can be tedious chasing down wires. If you know anyone that understands vehicle electricals that might help.. take advantage of it.

Some things are most unlikely since it was running ok last time. Don't undo things that generally remain solid. Hard parts are most unlikely to have changed. You are getting fuel at the injectors, so at least one pump is functioning and you aren't out of fuel [I once wasted days on my 930 because of a stuck gas gauge reading a half tank when I was out of fuel!].

Consider this:

Beg, borrow, or steal a Volt meter and confirm your voltage. Yes, it will crank ok but may not start unless you have 12v+.

If you only have one pump working it also may not start. Important to make sure you test to hear each fuel pump and you probably have fuses [and more] for each one. This being a one off it is just a guess the specifics.

You don't have starting fluid.. OK. You can use WD-40. Yes! I used to be involved with some radical race cars and needed this a lot. I became concerned about washing down the cylinder walls with the harsh starting fluids all the time and I tried WD-40 on a lark - it works. I only use WD-40 now.

I don't know if your mention of selling it is that you intend to sell it regardless or if you are disgusted with the situation [been there also]. I must say- do NOT sell it non-running. It is too much of a one-off and rarely do they get good money unless they are perfect. [The recent upsurge in 930 prices is not going to apply to a non-930 chassis like this. You will get beaten up badly if you sell it like it sits.]

It is so interesting and your father built it... perhaps it makes sense to move it along but I personally hope you decide to keep and enjoy it. I have been disgusted with my special 930 many times and thought about selling it, but it has a lot of history and I am delighted ever time I look into the garage and see it peeking back begging me for a little exercise. Your results may vary.