Mike,
Just noticed that you are dealing with the same job I am at this moment. One issue that I had during the first rebuilt was replacing the big 36mm nut. I could not locate one anywhere so ended up reusing the old one. I will like to replace it now but still no word on where to find it. If find it available anywhere (or anybody else know where to get it from) please post it here. I am sure there are some others looking for it too.
Regards,
Rey

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422975060.jpg

Rey, I'm sure you can find the 36mm nut here at Pelicanparts. If they are out then I think Stoddard carries them. I will be replacing new 30mm & 36mm nuts. The ones I removed were obviously re-used so I'd rather ditch them (not sure if it's okay to re-use more than once).

I just took apart 4th gear revealing its innards.

Removed lock washer

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423017986.jpg


Removed bands, stop and lock

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423018000.jpg


Removed syncro ring

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423018013.jpg


I'm glad to find that the bands, stop and lock for 4th gear are in great shape. I'll be taking apart the other three gears tomorrow.

Really good stuff Mike. Thanks for the photo/ sharing effort. How do you plan to reconcile the 1-2 fork misalignment?

Gary

The 30mm nut can be found easily, PP has it for $14.50. Is the 36mm (930-302-453.00) the one that me an others have not been able to find. The host has NLA on it.

I've got that nut...

In order to adjust shift forks, the main shaft and pinion shaft nuts must be tightened to their actual torque spec.This will draw all the components of the gear stack together as they will be in the finished transmission using a special shift fork jig like in the pictures/procedure below

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423080126.jpg

Here are 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear innards beginning with 3rd gear.

Removed lock washer (3rd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098854.jpg


Removed bands, stop and lock (3rd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098873.jpg


Removed syncro ring (3rd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098891.jpg


Removed lock washer (2nd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098920.jpg


Removed bands, stop and lock (2nd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098935.jpg


Removed syncro ring (2nd gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098954.jpg


Removed lock washer (1st gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423098969.jpg


Removed bands, stop and lock (1st gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099008.jpg


Removed syncro ring (1st gear)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099369.jpg


All bands, stop and lock looks good.

continue...

Now lets take a look at the shift forks.

1st/2nd gear fork

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099688.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099701.jpg

Both sides looks good.

But here's the strange part. See closeup photo below. Note that the shift fork pinch bolt is "bottomed out" against the notch. As mentioned in earlier post the 1st/2nd gear slider was not centered (too close to 1st gear). For some reason whoever worked on this gearbox (replaced stock 2nd-4th gears with shorter gears) did not set up this fork properly. I suspect that the mechanic did not install reverse gears and tightened the shaft nuts to close up the gear cluster when checking the forks or was just too lazy to center the slider.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099716.jpg


3rd/4th gear fork

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099728.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099741.jpg

Both sides looks good.


Note that pinch bolt is not against the notch. It's more centered within the notch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1423099755.jpg


Now I'm off to look for taller 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears and put together a list of parts needed for this rebuild. I just ordered a Kevlar disc (with springs) from Clutchnet and also called KEP to ask about rebuilding the PP (Chris @ TurboKraft, thanks for the suggestion!). They said no problem and turn around time is about a week from time of receiving the PP. I asked about which version of PP I have. They said it can be determined by measuring the thickness of the diaphragm. Stage 1 is .137" thick and Stage 2 is .145" thick. Mine measures .138 so it's a Stage 1. I think I'll stay with Stage 1 using Kevlar disc. It held up well with 444 rwhp and I have no short term plan to increase HP.

Hello Matt...I hope you have a few laying around. Are these NLA or did you have them made?

Mike,

Great job on this, and great photos/documentation/explanation. I have some issues with the 915 from my race car that need sorting before she goes on the track next season. I am debating tackling it myself, so your journey provides some inspiration and motivation for me.

AND

It's nice to see some more DIY at the top of the forum posts.

^^^+1 Tpalloza boys!!!

Be careful when using the SIR tool to remove the dog teeth. The ridge on the tool is backwards compared to how it should fit. I had particular trouble with first gear dogs and busted up the $100 tool on the first try. Was told later to use a hammer on the tool,instead of a press...:rolleyes: More info can be provided if anyone wants it...

Jacob...thanks. Agree that there should be more DIY around here. I never tire of learning from others.

Miguel...TP'looza...yeah!

Pat...please do provide more information right here (or start a new thread if it's long) about what you went thru with SIR tools removing the syncro hubs/teeth.

NLA. These are NOS. I have 5.

Mike - Great write up. Any idea on how many miles on the box?

^^^about 37k miles (20k miles with shorter gears) on the box.

It's been a while since my last update. I found several sources for custom gear sets. Originally my plan was to go with stock 1st gear, 1.444 2nd gear, .963 3rd and .688 4th. But I would have to buy new 3rd & 4th gear sets which were out of my price range. So I had to compromise with whatever used gear sets were available. First I found .656 4th gear set which I had to return due to its bearing surfaces being fretted (had some pittings from corrosion) in spite of its seller claiming "excellent" condition. Yeah right...got my money back. I ended up with 1.444 2nd, .928 3rd and .625 4th (stock) gear sets. The synchro hubs on 3rd and 4th gear sets are in excellent condition so I won't be replacing those. I replaced the synchro hubs on 1st and 2nd gear sets. Here's how I accomplished this.

A sharp chisel is used between the synchro teeth and flat surface of gear shown below (1.60 gear shown as a demonstration). I worked the chisel around the gear slowly lifting the synchro hub up away from the face of a gear. This process took about 10 min and I wore safety glasses during this procedure.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038049.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038206.jpg


Before installing a new synchro hub I added slight chamfers to the splines on the gear using a dremel tool to make it easier to get the synchro hub started. Then I heated up the synchro slowly going around the entire synchro hub repeatedly using a propane torch to around 200 deg F. I used a infrared heat sensor gun to check its temperature.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038073.jpg


Then I installed the synchro hub onto the gear using a 2 3/4" dia pipe, 2x4 and hammer as shown below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038094.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038110.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038126.jpg


I will have a machine shop to verify the I.D. of the bearing surfaces to check for any variation of its diameter due to installed new synchro hubs. Any variations will be honed out. But 2nd gear will need to be cleaned up anyway since there is a dimple at the end of the bearing surface which was already present when I received this gear from the seller (see below). The seller agreed to refund a portion of his sale to pay for this cleanup. Also, another challenge with 2nd gear was that its synchro hub was tacked (brazed) onto the gear. I was able to carefully remove the brazing using a dremel tool with small thin grinding wheel (again wore safety glasses!) before removing the synchro hub.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038261.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038273.jpg


On another note I had my KEP stage 1 pressure plate rebuilt by KEP. It turned out like new! This PP turned out to be custom setup using G50 PP with 930 diaphragm spring plate (to accommodate G50 flywheel which is used with Protomotive Motronic EFI).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038222.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038234.jpg


The flywheel will be cleaned up and resurfaced at a machine shop who will also work on the gears.

I'd thought I'd share my study on the gearing versus my car's dyno hp/torque curve. The dyno was done by a PO back in 2004 and there were no further changes on the engine/turbo. So its hp/torque curve is still valid. Below is a dyno chart and I'm not sure why the dyno run was shut down at 6k rpm instead of 7k. HP was still climbing when it was shut down. So I'll have to assume that hp drops shortly after 6.5k rpm when working with thrust calculation.

Although my car had short 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears (1.60, 1.12 & .792) which was awesome but
my goal is to have tall 4th gear for relatively low rpm cruising on highway while first three gears will close enough for spirit driving. After calculating the thrust of each gear I've determined that I'll be able to stay in the powerband with wider gear ratios between 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears while closing up wide gap between stock 1st-2nd gears.

Here's the dyno chart

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038944.jpg


Below is a thrust (lbs vs. speed) chart with color coded for different gearing ratios. You can see that the previous short gearing results in impressive thrust in every gears. This shows why one would set up gearing for certain tracks or known planned top speed. It's too bad I could not just add 5th tall gear without resorting to a Ruf 5sp or G50 gearbox.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426038976.jpg

Mike you are doing a great job. I see you have a w/shop manual also. If you do get stuck you can search for an excellent link on this forum 'Can't shift into first' - pics and blow by blow description.
From memory, when I did my 930 box I had to make a long socket tool to get at a nut on a shaft. I split the socket thru the diameter, and welded each bit on opposite ends of a pipe - if that helps.
Regards
Alan

Alan, thanks for the tip. I only needed to remove the gear clusters and not the shafts. I am waiting to get the gears (slightly re-hone to square up the bearing surface in case it's off from installing new synchro hubs) and flywheel (resurface) back from the machine shop. Then my gearbox will come together.

You are doing a first rate job. Obviously have some experience in this area. Typical of many of the guys here. Keep up the good work. I always count 'dollars and cents' between each gearshift - even on the track - which is the only place I use the beast. I've had about 5 seasons out of the box since I rebuilt it, but 2nd is getting a bit grumpy now. I have to count 'more dollars and cents' for that shift.
I changed my ratios via Guard Transmission, if you are still looking for gears
Regards
Alan

Mike,

Sorry I never posted a response about the sir tool. Looks like you got around using them with the chisel, that probably worked better anyway.

For those using the sir tool to remove synchros, the ridge on the edge of the tool that fits into the synchro groove is shaped opposite than the way you need to use the tool. Hard to explain, but if you compare the tool and the synchro, the synchro has a triangle shaped groove that the tool fits into. If you align the tool with the groove so that the ridges match, then you have to push on the bottom of the tool to get the synchro off. The tool will break with too much force on the bottom. It is designed to push on the top, the more you push, the more it spreads the tool and helps release the synchro.

When I did mine I had no choice as the tool kept popping out of the groove due to the misshaped tool, I flipped the tool and got it loose enough to put a gear puller on it, but it destroyed the tool and the 1st gear synchro hub. After a couple months of Mr. Sir telling me it was my fault and I was doing it wrong (hard to tell if your doing it wrong if the damn thing doesn't come with any instructions) he finally gave me a replacement tool.

Oh yeah, BTW the tool is only supposed to be used with a hammer, not a press... WTF beating with a BFH is supposed to be easier on the tool than constant regulated pressure from a press? Design the tool correctly, and it would work soo much better....

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I thought I was over it...

Back to your post, great job so far. Keep it going! I'm hoping to tun my key tomorrow afternoon for the first time after a trans build, head stud and leak repair (almost a full top end rebuild)!

I did looked into SIR tools but decided to not to consider them due to reasons you mentioned. I figured if the tools were never redesigned properly then why buy them? I don't blame you for your rant and thanks for sharing your experience with the tools. I hope all went well with your repairs!

Thanks for sharing this rebuild, so much great info here with very good photos.

I plan to tackle this job later in the summer so it's great to see that it can be done at home.

I hesitate to state this but for posterity........
So I got my 930 gearbox disassembled partially and the shift forks were not together with their respective rods. So it was a little confusing. Anyway it doesn't work well if the fork is installed upside down. Just doesn't work.
I gut it all together and it's cool.

Mike any progress?

There has been little progress. It seems there's two step forward then one step back as usual with most folks involving with any project. In this case it has to do with several things. One involves 3rd gear (.93 gear) which I recently found out it's not acceptable due to pittings in several teeth. I did not noticed this when I received the gears last month until I cleaned it up getting ready for gearbox assembly earlier this week. So I'm waiting for a resolution with its seller who will get with me next week. Over the past several weeks I had the machine shop to repair 2nd gear (1.44 gear) (removed a dimple mentioned earlier) and lightly honed inside bore of 1st and 2nd gear. So far these two gears looks good. Second problem has to do with a bearing for input shaft between reverse and 1st gears. I noticed some groovings in several roller bearings so I ordered a special bearing from a bearing shop (Bearing Headquarters) which had to be shipped from a factory. I requested N305EN bearing but received N305E bearing. Note that suffix code "N" is missing...this specifies grooves on the outside of the outer race for ring clip. The bearing shop claimed they could not find it. I'll have to order from this host which I should have done in the first place. So these two problems are the major hold up on my progress.

Another potential problem I'm dealing with is a clutch disc I ordered from Clutchnet. Over two months ago I ordered a Kevlar disc...I received it after waiting 4 weeks. Turned out that the disc has organic on one side and kevlar on another. This is not what I wanted so I returned it to have a full kevlar disc. It is now 4 weeks and still have not received it yet.

Still another project I'm working on is replacing one CV joint in the rear axle (it developed notches in ball bearing races even though the axles are only 6 yrs old (10k miles) and repacking all CV joints. I'm not looking forward to it...messy...messy!!

measure the disk from clutchnet. Porsche spec's the disk to be 10mm, with a max wear limit of 8.5. Both disks I received from Clutchnet were between 8 and 8.5. The new Sachs disk I just received was 10mm....

tim

tim,
My clutchnet disc also measured 8.5mm but was told it's fine to use. My old Sachs Kevlar disc measured 7.5mm which still worked fine until the diaphragm spring broke in the pressure plate.

So far my new clutch with rebuilt KEP PP is working great. I have not ran my car hard yet since the Kevlar clutch needs to be broken in. Clutchnet suggested 800 miles...no way I'm going to wait that long. So far I put in close to 100 miles (mostly around town...not highway). Still a way to go.

It's been a long 2 months...I returned a 3rd gear expecting an exchange. But no...the seller (Knightrace and YermanCars, both work together and I bought gears from both sellers) did not have the ratio I requested. Again more delay. But he did have Perfect Power's mechanic to inspect the gears which he said is fine and should last another 100k miles. So I agreed to use it. Meanwhile I replaced one CV joint and regreased three other CV joints. To be honest I wished I did not take apart the three CV joints! It's too messy and they did not need to be regreased but I supposed I wanted to torture myself learning how it's done. Having a press is necessary to remove and reinstall a CV joint on its axle shaft.

I also replaced an input shaft bearing (ordered from pelicaparts).

Now onto the gearbox assembly...below is an order of assembly sequence following a Porsche manual. Note that I used wording (pinion) and (input) to designate which shaft a gear is installed onto. "Pinion" is a shaft the drives a differential whereas an "input" is a shaft that goes to the clutch. Also, the shift forks will be adjusted after gears are assembled.

1. 4th gear (pinion)
2. Needle cage, spacer (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893330.jpg


3. 4th gear (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893364.jpg


4. Operating sleeve/slider for 3rd and 4th gears (input)
5. Slider with shift fork/shaft (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893394.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893434.jpg


6. Bushing, spacer, needle cage (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893456.jpg


7. 3rd gear (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893482.jpg


8. Spacer, 3rd gear (pinion)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893557.jpg


9. Thrust washer (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893581.jpg


10. 2nd gear (input)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893610.jpg


11. Bushing, needle cage for 2nd gear (pinion)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433893652.jpg

cont.

continuation...

12. 2nd gear (pinion)

1st Gear Input

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894013.jpg


13. 4. Operating sleeve/slider for 1st and 2nd gears (pinion)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894041.jpg


14. Slider with shift fork/shaft (pinion). Note orientation of slider (assymetrical for 1st gear synchro versus symetrical for 2nd gear synchro)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894066.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894085.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894103.jpg


15. Bushing, spacer, needle cage, 1st gear (pinion)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894125.jpg


16. Thrust washer (pinion). Note orientation of washer

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894140.jpg


17. Spacer, 1st gear (input). Note that boss on 1st gear goes against spacer

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894157.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894181.jpg

cont.

continuation...

18. Roller bearing (input)...note that I temporary installed an old roller bearing which is a loose fit comparing to a new bearing that needed to be heated to install which I was not ready yet in case I need to take apart the gear sets again.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894480.jpg


19. Roller bearing (pinion)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894506.jpg


At this point I needed to adjust the shift forks so I installed reverse gears, lightly tighten nuts on ends of shafts and installed shift detents.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894529.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894549.jpg


As expected the 3rd/4th gear fork is centered

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894579.jpg


1st/2nd gear fork is obviously off (too close to 1st gear synchro)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894603.jpg


Before adjusting shift fork tape was added and marked. This shows the alignment of the fork on its shaft.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894629.jpg


Then loosened and centered the fork

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433894649.jpg

cont.

continuation...

I replaced the input roller bearing knowing the gearbox will come together.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895017.jpg


Installed shift rod with its lever within selector forks

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895043.jpg


Applied gasket sealer to mating surfaces

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895069.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895090.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895119.jpg


Installed paper gasket

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895139.jpg


Install fork selector cover

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895159.jpg


Install reverse gears and torque shaft nuts. Use same technique to lock the gears as explained during removal process (shift gearbox to 4th gear and use reverse idler gear). Then install front cover using gasket sealer and paper gasket. Also install reverse gear detent. Sorry no photos.


Completed gearbox

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895179.jpg



Before the gearbox was closed up permantly I temporary installed center case, reverse gears/nuts, front cover and fork selector cover in order to check the shifting of all gears including reverse. I suggest to temporary hold the reverse gear detent/spring as shown below. That way you can get the feel of reverse, 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th gear shift pattern. Since everything is new it takes quite a force to shift into the gears except for reverse which has no synchro. Once everything shifts as expected then the gearbox is ready to be closed up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1433895474.jpg


Sometime later this week I'll write about clutch and installing the engine/trans. So far I have driven close to 100 miles and all checked good especially the shifting.

Before putting the clutch together I checked the new disc for runout/wobble. I placed the disc onto the shaft and spun it which checked good.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074427.jpg


Installed clutch

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074460.jpg


Setting up to mate the gearbox to engine

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074481.jpg


Success after several attempts to engage the TOB

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074518.jpg


Engine ready to be installed

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074535.jpg


Rear of car jacked up higher then rolled engine into place

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074553.jpg


Then rear of car is lowered onto jack stands

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074570.jpg


Finally jacked up engine/gearbox while checking everything clears during this step. Engine is installed!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074587.jpg


Finalized project. The action of the clutch is much smoother...not being grabby and shifting is firm and crisp. I'll call this trans rebuild a success once I hit 500 miles.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074607.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434074622.jpg



So for those who are on the fence to do the gearbox rebuild...do it! Normally it would not take this long to rebuild. I hit several road blocks due to exchanging clutch disc (wrong disc sent to me), rebuilding PP, returned defective 4th gear (different seller) and returned questionable 3rd gear that was supposedly acceptable and shipped back to me.

One important tip...if new synchro hubs were installed then plan on having the gears lightly honed if necessary by a machine shop to prevent potential bearing lockup.

very nicely done, MikeD!!!

must feel great after such an accomplishment - good for you and excellent detailed descriptions / shots

car looks great - first stop: tires 8-)

SOooooooooooooooooo... nowwwwwwwwwwww you have noooooooooooooo excuse (no more short gearz!!!) to not HEAD EAST 7/23... jah?!?!?!??

Dooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet... and wrangle 'ole Cole into comin on out withyous!!! Either in caravan, or copilot - but - BE HERE!!! I talked w/ him yesterday and told him to heckle you about such... make us PROUD my friend!!! SmileWavy :D

Hey Paul...thanks.

I already have family vacation plans to go west around that time.

Edit:
Family vacation is now sometime during month of Aug...so I'm free during July!!

Achtung...achtung! As noted above in the edited posting...I should be available so yeah Paul I'll make an effort to join up with you turbo bums at Jake's place...aber ja!

^uberawesomeness^

I almost forgot about this thread. It's been around 500 miles since the gearbox rebuild. Everything is still going smooth. It used to be easy to grind the synchros when shifting into 2nd gear but now always snicks into any gear. As for revised gearing there are pros and cons but in my case the pros outweighs the cons.
Pros: lower highway engine rpm (stock 4th gear), quieter highway cruising, reduced no. of shifting, longer pull in each gear.
Cons: more frequent wrong gearing (one gear too low and next gear too tall for a given speed), more noticeable turbo lag (I'm not implying that the turbo lag got worst...just that having an engine that reach full boost at 4k rpm is more noticeable using stock gearing than short gearing).

Overall...I'm glad I rebuilt the gearbox/clutch and revised the gearing. I hope this thread will be of help to those who will partake gearbox rebuild.

p.s. Paul...as mentioned elsewhere...sorry for not making it to the East side due to my daughter's car wreck. I was bummed and my daughter felt bad when she found out about my cancellation.