Cams & ports

[pkabush]

Sooo..... as some of you know, my motor has been out for a clutch and gearbox swap for quit awhile now. I keep thinking, (that's my problem) why not pull the heads and put those s/c cams in that have been so patiently waiting on my workbench. And since I'm doing the cams.....
You guys see where this is going. The slope is rapidly loosing traction.
So, here are the current details.

Stock Euro 3.3 p/c Those will stay
Stock Euro fuel head I'm not planning on a FH mod but the injectors will go to
Larry for flow testing
BL WUR - Not yet installed
Dig. MSD - Need to install map sensor, lock dizzy and set up timing map
Treadstone full bay i/c - Probably will be replaced with a Bell full bay like Paul's
B&B headers
Garret Blowzilla turbo
Free flowing exhaust
Tial wastegate
J&S Knock detector - Not yet installed
Stock Euro gearing with factory LSD, KEP stage 1 clutch and a Wevo shifter

My goal is to gain maximum safe power on CIS through fueling, timing, intake porting, Carrara heads and bolt on parts. I'm not going to split the case. Last time I checked, the leak down results were very good. 2-3% across the board.
This is and will be 99% street driven. I'm just trying to maximize the potential power.
Although FI is off the table, I'm definitely interested in digital wur options. I suspect top end fueling will be the biggest hurdle to overcome. The FrankinCIS looks really promising. Although, I think it requires a CIS-E fuel head to work with our 930s. I need to do some more research on the subject.

So, for now, my questions for the brain trust are,
1. Should I be considering other cams ? I think given the choice between SC and 964 I'd go with SC cams but, perhaps there's a better option. I do already have them but, I don't think I'd have a problem recouping my doe if I change direction.

2- Should I be considering porting work with Carrara heads or are they good to go as is?
Either way I think I'll have them drilled for twin plugs. I wont change my ignition system now but I suspect I'll regret it down the road if I don't do it while they're out.
Also, I have a spare intake that will be port matched to the heads. And, I have a spare set of factory injector spacers that have been bored out. I think to 40mm I'll have to check. I'm aware of the potential for cracking so, I may end up going with TC spacers.
OK, I guess that's enough for now. Any and all advise, criticism and or questions are welcomed and appreciated.

[kenikh]

A few things -

I've been told by a few experts that do this for a living that it is pretty much impossible for a CIS engine to need a full bay. Save the boost lag, go TK/Kokeln/Garretson half bay.

SC cams - better than stock, so if you have them, use them. That said, if you want the true slippery slope, come see what 8.3:1 CR and 993SS cams will do to wake up these cars off idle. Shannon drove my car and was duly impressed - you're welcome to drive it, too. Stock compression, I'd go Sport-SC/DC15. They just have more poop.

BL WUR - thumbs up all the way, but get the delay solenoid, as well. REQUIRED IMHO.

Knock control - also must have in these cars, IMHO.

FrankenCIS - doesn't require CIS-E. Works great with an early or late (lambda) CIS. Get the DKUBUS kit and you get a Microsquirt controller which will replace the MSD you want to buy and do the same thing, plus can fire twin plugs if you'd like. Better yet, you can buy a $60 external knock module and run knock control from the Microsquirt, freeing you from the cost of the J&S...although the J&S is more sophisticated.

Carrera heads - leave them as-is. Machine your pancake manifold to 40mm, get TK spacers that taper bore from 40mm to 38mm, which will give you a nice reversion ledge. Done.

FCUK the KEP clutch. I drove one once - and that is the only time I will ever drive one. I'd rather pay double what I paid for my Sachs BTR clutch and eat $#!t covered broken glass than drive a car with a KEP clutch in Seattle. If you like your left leg looking like Popeye's forearm, go right ahead.

[Ronnie's.930]

Kenik, for the sake of discussion, regardless of "need" or not, which as far as I'm concerned is nothing more than opinion, regardless of the person's credentials (too many ways to define "need", in other words), anyone who has ever installed one here absolutely loves them and has never said anything about problems with increased lag. To me, that is money well spent.

Speaking of differing expert opinions, this is amusing - I have a longtime friend that works as a tech at Lambo Dallas, and before that , worked for many years at RAC, and he says that any halfbay is a major limiting factor to big horsepower with CIS - ha ha! He says that thinish core fullbays are far superior to thickish core halfbays at shedding heat.

[pkabush]

Thanks for the replies fellows, keep em coming. To clear a few things up, I already have the MSD 62AL and the J&S Knock control. I just haven't installed them yet. However, i'm not opposed to selling them in order to fund a FrankinCIS & microsquirt. We'll see.
I will be going with a full bay i/c and while the heads are off I'll replace the divlar studs with Supertecs despite what your "experts" say No doubt a half bay would suffice, especially given our climate, but, I don't have or want A/C and the full bays just look badass. And, honestly I don't believe that there's a discernible difference in lag time. I could be wrong though. If so I'll blame Ronnie
I've read so many conflicting reports on the KEP clutches. I think at least some of the bad experiences have to do with installation and or adjustment issues. I'd like to hear (good and bad) from people who have or have had them in there 930s.
I do think you're spot on regarding the heads and cams. I'll pony up for the TC spacers.

[Tippy]

Haven't read others comments, but putting Carrera heads is going to pick up big power.

Per Steve Weiner, DO NOT port the Carrera heads. He's seen many lose flow after touching.

If you're going Carrera heads, go 964 cams. Those SC's will sell like hot cakes and pay for the 964's.

As for fueling, CIS experts can vouch for.

If CIS can't hang, it needs to go! EFI is your next step.

I'm trying to PUSH you right off that cliff!! HEHE.

Lastly, Carrera 3.2 intakes are cheap now since no one wants them (not sure if you have one).

[pkabush]

Thanks Tip. No, the extra mf I have is a pancake. I'm one of these goofballs who likes the antiquated CIS system. Also $ is an issue. It'll be awhile until I have enough to pay for the heads and other bits. I'm guessing the reasoning for the 964 cam recommendation is that the Carrera heads will free up power off boost but the sc cams will be the first to leave the party.
I'm hoping to use my existing headers. I've read where Chris C. talks about machining the B&B header flanges to match the Carrara heads. I guess the collars that fit inside the heads would be machined off in the process. Anybody here have experience with this ?

[kenikh]

Why not just port your existing heads? Probably cheaper than buying new Carrera heads.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by pkabush

If so I'll blame Ronnie

Go right ahead, Mr. 70's B! I'll take it (different "it" than applies to Paul) like a man!

Originally Posted by pkabush

Thanks (for just the) Tip.

Fixed it for ya' - you're welcome, bro!




PS - that Dilivar zinger was choice! I've over-run my quota of those directed a Kenik, so have sworn off of them so as not to be too much of a Richard about that - ha ha!

[kenikh]

The dilavars are still holding on my car. And Shannon's. And Paul's. :P

[pkabush]

I'll never put my car back to stock and, I'll very likely never sell it but, if I do I want to retain all the stock parts. So, I'll source used Carrara heads. I already have a spare manifold that I picked up for $75. The WUR I had modded was also bought used for $125 so I can keep mine stock. Silly perhaps but, so are the prices of a stock 930. There were less than 850 models produced in 81 and mine is sans sunroof so, a bit of a rare bird.

[kenikh]

Stock is what you can see. Cams, ports, pistons... Invisible.

[dos531]

FYI the knock control on the J&S is gonna be much better than a microsquirt or ms2. They use an external knock module that just feeds a signal to the computer. It's much more primitive than the j&s and I havent really heard of anybody getting it working well. On the other hand, if you step up to the ms3x or ms3pro then you get real knock control with windowing and all the modern goodies. That's what I did

[kenikh]

What sucks about the ms3 variants is that B&G locked down the firmware, so you can't add the FrankenCIS functionality.

[pkabush]

Originally Posted by dos531

FYI the knock control on the J&S is gonna be much better than a microsquirt or ms2. They use an external knock module that just feeds a signal to the computer. It's much more primitive than the j&s and I havent really heard of anybody getting it working well. On the other hand, if you step up to the ms3x or ms3pro then you get real knock control with windowing and all the modern goodies. That's what I did

Cool. Thanks for chiming in. BTW I never got around to pming you. The unit showed up in great shape and it looks like a snap to install. Seems like a really good thing to have for our motors. I'm kinda surprised more people don't use them.

[kenikh]

Brooke Stabbert is installing one in his very soon - you guys should trade notes.

[xbmwguy]

Keniik I have no problem with my kep 2, even in stop and go traffic with all the blue heads here in so Fla ,just sayin

[kenikh]

^ all good. I'm just saying once you've gone BTR, it's hard to imagine going back. Already know one guy who's replacing his good condition KEP for the BTR, after driving mine. The difference in leg pressure is between the two is mind bending.

[dos531]

Originally Posted by pkabush

Cool. Thanks for chiming in. BTW I never got around to pming you. The unit showed up in great shape and it looks like a snap to install. Seems like a really good thing to have for our motors. I'm kinda surprised more people don't use them.

I thought the same thing. It's a no brainer for a CIS car especially.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by xbmwguy

Keniik I have no problem with my kep 2, even in stop and go traffic with all the blue heads here in so Fla ,just sayin

You must squat like 1000 lbs! Mine is tough I'd admit.

[smurfbus]

Originally Posted by pkabush

I'm hoping to use my existing headers. I've read where Chris C. talks about machining the B&B header flanges to match the Carrara heads. I guess the collars that fit inside the heads would be machined off in the process. Anybody here have experience with this ?

IMO the collar is bigger so you have to machine the head to make the collar fit. This is what I did to use 9301043292R 3.0 heads with BB headers.