Gawd-cammit - Need cams, like now.

[16Volt]

So I appear to be moving through my rebuild faster than I budgeted and planned on. The net result (other than having to flake out on Jacob's gorgeous Fikses) is that I need cams....like now.

If you have looked for new billet cams in the last few months you will know that there are basically none to be had in the US save for some extreme setups. I wanted to wait until there was more billet stock available but I dont have a choice now so I need to decide from the 3 below options. Here is my setup -

3.3
K29/K27 hybrid
B&B shortneck
B&B headers
RarlyL8 Hooligan
Twin Plug/XDI2 ignition
Knock Sensing
1bar spring in a tial WG
dual divertors/no mid manifold
BL WUR with RPM sensor
CIS

I am looking for midrange punch, i dont wind the car out all that often and am looking for 'drop a gear, blow your mind' speed'. The car was running a set of Elgin regrinds which ate themselves. It made boost down low and felt great.

Options -
1. Send out a set of SCs to Dougherty for regrind to DC15s/pump drive attachment
2. Send out a set of SCs to Web for regrind/pump drive attachment
3. Send out current Elgins back to Elgin for repair

Thoughts?

IMG_9895.jpg by Shannon, on Flickr

[patina]

I believe Chris @ TurboKraft has a set of Edelweiss in stock, give him a call.

[Hams930T]

Doesn't take long to start modding, does it...

Happy modding!

[dos531]

Have you thought about getting some oem 964 cams and adding the scavenge drive? Hard to beat oem quality, and they should be more than enough cam. That's my plan anyways.

[jwasbury]

I have a used set of Elgin "Super SC" grind cams that came out of my race car. Would need to add the provision for oil pump drive on the driver side cam, but they are appropriate for CIS cars and marketed as a "hot" cam suitable for the CIS equipped 911 SC.

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by patina

I believe Chris @ TurboKraft has a set of Edelweiss in stock, give him a call.

I spoke with Chris a couple weeks back, they dont have anything in stock stateside that would be a good fit for my setup. There is a set of the Edelweiss cams in Germany which sound perfect but...they are about twice the cost of most folks billets. It's a last resort i guess.

Originally Posted by dos531

Have you thought about getting some oem 964 cams and adding the scavenge drive? Hard to beat oem quality, and they should be more than enough cam. That's my plan anyways.

From my conversation with Chris I got the impression that the 964s would put the power up pretty high for what I am looking for. Anyone have a similar setup who can chime in on boost onset I would love to hear it.

Originally Posted by jwasbury

I have a used set of Elgin "Super SC" grind cams that came out of my race car. Would need to add the provision for oil pump drive on the driver side cam, but they are appropriate for CIS cars and marketed as a "hot" cam suitable for the CIS equipped 911 SC.

Dumb question - when people put in 'SC' cams are they just stock SC cams with the oil pump drive put on? I have heard the team SC212s and SC330s thrown around like the are SCs but reground and have the pump drive put on.

[TurboKraft]

Edelweiss camshafts are machined by the same little company who cut 911 air-cooled cams for Porsche Motorsport. Top equipment, top tech.

In the first car we used Edelweiss cams, overall output was considerably better than expected. Happy with them, ordered in 3 different sets:

* Mild -- more than SC or 964, available for sale, work with CIS
* Medium -- more than GT2 cams, going into a Pelican's EFI 930
* Hot -- going into a big bad ITB Twin Turbo we are building

They are $1,995/pair.
Same price Edelweiss sells them for, with $100 freight included (FedEx cost more than that).
Less than new factory camshafts, more than most US aftermarket camshafts.

[16Volt]

And here is what came out of my car -

IMG_9900.jpg by Shannon, on Flickr

IMG_9896.jpg by Shannon, on Flickr

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

Edelweiss camshafts are machined by the same little company who cut 911 air-cooled cams for Porsche Motorsport. Top equipment, top tech.

In the first car we used Edelweiss cams, overall output was considerably better than expected. Happy with them, ordered in 3 different sets:

* Mild -- more than SC or 964, available for sale, work with CIS
* Medium -- more than GT2 cams, going into a Pelican's EFI 930
* Hot -- going into a big bad ITB Twin Turbo we are building

They are $1,995/pair.
Same price Edelweiss sells them for, with $100 freight included (FedEx cost more than that).
Less than new factory camshafts, more than most US aftermarket camshafts.

Thanks Chris, for the mild set, where do you estimate (I wouldnt hold you to it) would you think boost onset is and peak torque with that turbo I got from ya?

[TurboKraft]

964 cams are better on a CIS engine when you have
more displacement
more compression
porting
or, all of the above.

From our discussion of your modifications and intended use, SC cams -- or the slightly improved Elgin/Dougherty variants -- are better for your application.

[16Volt]

Yeah, I am stock displacement, stock comp and no porting.

Just wanted to make sure I wasnt going totally insane.

I wish the Porsche cam world was like the VW cam world as in there is a relatively standard nomenclature....

[TurboKraft]

Per Dirk at Edelweiss, this mild cam will still idle at or below 1,000rpm, torque onset is earlier than the little SC cams, with better upper rpm power than 964.

[jwasbury]

Buy my wheels, and I'll throw my cams in the deal

[boosted79]

Wondering why new billets are so scarce, just not enough demand?

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

And here is what came out of my car -

IMG_9900.jpg by Shannon, on Flickr

IMG_9896.jpg by Shannon, on Flickr

It looks like the rocker arm pads wore the cam lobes more to one side than the other. That can happen if the rocker arms were refurbished and the pads were not ground accurately.
The pitting in the cam lobes looks like not enough oil was being sprayed at the cams by the cam spray bars so some of them may be clogged. It's also possible motor oil with low levels of ZDDP was used for a while and caused more wear on the cam lobes and rocker arms.

There are 3 cam spray bar holes per cylinder or 9 in each cam spray bar and you have to remove the cam towers to clean them out and confirm they are clear and not clogged or partially clogged. With them on the motor and in the car you can only see one spray bar hole per cylinder - the one that sprays oil straight up so it splashes off the back side of the intake valve rocker cover to lubricate and cool the valve train parts that may not be reached by the direct stream of oil being sprayed by the other cam spray bar holes.

I've been through this stuff and it $ucks.. good luck with making it all good.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by JFairman

The pitting in the cam lobes looks like not enough oil was being sprayed at the cams by the cam spray bars so some of them may be clogged.
There are 3 cam spray bar holes per cylinder or 9 in each cam spray bar and you have to remove the cam towers to clean them out and confirm they are clear and not clogged or partially clogged. With them on the motor and in the car you can only see one spray bar hole per cylinder - the one that sprays oil straight up so it splashes off the back side of the intake valve rocker cover to lubricate and cool the valve train parts that may not be reached by the direct stream of oil being sprayed by the other cam spray bar holes.

I've been through this stuff and it $ucks.. good luck with making it all good.

^^ Yep, what Jim said..

That's why on any build we do as final check before the cam towers etc get locked down, we'll load the passage with oil and then pressurize it looking for nice spray x that 9.. occasionally you find one that doesn't spray as clean as the rest.. time to rip-it apart and re-clean!

[vintagecarlover]

I've got a pr of sc cams that I'll sell. Just need pump drive added. (150. Is what I was quoted) and I'll sell very fairly priced. Thx. Mark

[pkabush]

Who quoted $150 to add a pump drive ?

[vintagecarlover]

Brian bodart

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

..... Anyone have a similar setup who can chime in on boost onset I would love to hear it.

Yup, I'm running 964 cams, however, I'm unsure if this is helpful to you or not - and in no way does it usurp anything Chris is guiding you with - but this is the power curve we got when on the engine dyno with my lump running stock 964 N/A cams (but it's an EFI with GT35R, 3.4 and running a CR of 7.93:1, flowed heads and Carrera intake)



But as said, I defer to Chris with his advice, especially if running CIS.

ETA: We're still working on drivability mapping - 1 day done but still some way to go until I'm happy with the transitioning between maps, so I can't really give you a true idea of how the cam drives...its very wet/greasy on the roads in the UK and the chassis is all over the place in terms of geo....but even on low boost setting (0.7bar) it's "interesting" [British understatement mode=off]...or maybe I'm just a wuss....