Cam chain cover leaks - help wanted

[Jeff NJ]

So I am starting to work on some of the issues I never completed last year so the car is ready for the spring. One of the bigger issues is oil leaks.

My right cam chain cover leaks badly. I used 6mm nylock nuts from Home Depot (bought a bag of them) and properly (I think) torqued them, but I found out the hard way that if I try to give them just a little more, they just spin and ruin the nut. I am thinking that these nuts are too soft (don't touch that line, Ronnie!). Are the ones from Pelican better in this respect? Should I pull the covers, replace the gasket and add a little sealant (no sealant there now) to help?


Any brands that people have purchased that don't work well? There are individual nuts from Wurth, and there are bags of 100 from "aftermarket". Also, any different in the gaskets from Porcshe vs Victor Reinz?

How about this kit from wrightwood racing that has the nuts, washers and gaskets? Thoughts? 1988 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupe - Camshafts & Timing Chains - Page 2

Best sealant to use, if any?

Advice from the braintrust?

[icemann427]

I'm not sure about the problem with your nuts. They really shouldn't be all that tight. I use Hondabond 4 as a sealer with new gaskets on thoroughly clean mating surfaces and don't have any problems.

[Jeff NJ]

Yeah, I spent the time to make sure the surfaces were clean and smooth and used new gaskets and when torqueing, I went by the book value (cant remember offhand). But it will drip oil when running and hot to the point that it leaves spots on my driveway while I am leaving it at idle for a minute to cool down after a drive. Quite annoying...

[icemann427]

Use the Hondabond. All the difference in the world.

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by icemann427

I'm not sure about the problem with your nuts. They really shouldn't be all that tight. I use Hondabond 4 as a sealer with new gaskets on thoroughly clean mating surfaces and don't have any problems.

Exactly. If you've stripped out nuts or the studs you're way over tightening them and it's possible the chain case cover is warped now.

I use a VERY thin layer of Hylomar or Hondabond 4 smeared on the chain case cover gaskets. Hylomar is really hard to impossible to find in the states now so when the last of what I have is gone I'll be using Hondabond.
Those gaskets can be in stalled dry if everything is flat but a thin layer of non hardening sealant helps and gives me more confidence it won't leak down the road.
Blue Hylomar, Curil T, and Hondabond are all different high quality non hardening sealants. They can all work well there and can be cleaned off with fast drying wash laquer thinner and rags.
I wouldn't use a sealant that hardens like loctite 574 there, it's not needed and is a lot of work to clean off next time around.

[Ronnie's.930]

Jeff, I agree with Ice and Jim - your nutz are probably hard enough (maybe let Paul verify - he's the expert?!?!), considering the low torque nature of those fasteners. And like they mentioned, I would use a good, non-hardening (like Paul when a woman is around ) sealer on the gaskets. That "sealer there or no" is like a mini version of a "which oil is best" topic - some cry out against it and other recommend the sealer to prevent leaks . . . I would use sealer there 100% of the time.

[Jeff NJ]

Thanks guys. I really don't think I over-torqued it. What happened is that if the torque was 15ft lbs (guessing this number as I cant remember what it is supposed to be), I would get to 15 or so and it wouldn't torque any more no matter how much I tightened, and I did strip out a nut. Stud was undamaged.

I'll get the Hondabond and redo the gaskets with new nuts.

[Tom F2]

Regardless of whether I use sealer, I have had my best results when I clean the surfaces with Permatex gasket remover. It's not the really good stuff that they used to sell, but it's still pretty good.

[kenikh]

Have you confirmed your covers are truly flat? Ive had to sand the dealing surface on a few sets.

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

Thanks guys. I really don't think I over-torqued it. What happened is that if the torque was 15ft lbs (guessing this number as I cant remember what it is supposed to be), I would get to 15 or so and it wouldn't torque any more no matter how much I tightened, and I did strip out a nut. Stud was undamaged.

I'll get the Hondabond and redo the gaskets with new nuts.

Those are 5mm thick studs other than a couple of them and I'm not sure what the thread pitch is but 15 ft lbs sounds like way too tight. I do those by feel while holding the handle of the wrench up closer to the nut I'm tightening like I do rocker cover nuts from years of wrenching.

[ELZ's930]

As mentioned by Kenikh, take the cover and place it on a piece of glass with some very fine sand paper and lightly sand it periodically checking for flatness.

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by kenikh

Have you confirmed your covers are truly flat? Ive had to sand the dealing surface on a few sets.

Good idea while I have them off, Kenik. They didn't leak like this before I pulled them off last winter, but certainly I could have missed a spot, or they could be warped now.

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by JFairman

Those are 5mm thick studs other than a couple of them and I'm not sure what the thread pitch is but 15 ft lbs sounds like way too tight. I do those by feel while holding the handle of the wrench up closer to the nut I'm tightening like I do rocker cover nuts from years of wrenching.

Jim,
I don't think I torqued them that high. I was just using that as an example. I'll check my notes over the weekend. I think I am going to buy a smaller, inch lbs torque wrench to make sure I am being precise when I reinstall, since I don't have the experience you certainly do with "feeling" proper torque. Without a torque wrench, I would overtighten everything.

[Jeff NJ]

So I am sure I will figure this out on my own when I go to do the work, but can I remove the right side chain cover without removing the motor? Will dropping the rear of the motor down a few inches give me the room I need, or is it coming out completely?

[krasuskyp]

hey, be happy it's yer covers and not yer TOWERS

<------------------this fukkkin guy

sigh - lefty drips onto the turbo emitting an occasional white "poof" (Ronknees' delicacy!!!)

suxorz... that's a motor drop... annnnnnnd cam removal - fak!

[Oheggem]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

hey, be happy it's yer covers and not yer TOWERS

<------------------this fukkkin guy

sigh - lefty drips onto the turbo emitting an occasional white "poof" (Ronknees' delicacy!!!)

suxorz... that's a motor drop... annnnnnnd cam removal - fak!

Hey!! My engine is doing the same. Did you diagnose the problem? What causes this?

[Alan L]

You can pull the covers - but you have to pull some extraneous crap. Shouldn't have to lower engine. RHS much easier than LHS.
There is something wrong here. I can seal mine without sealant and without torquing. I just nip them up evenly. If you are pulling threads, I don't care what cheap brand of nuts you may have, you are using waaay too much torque. At a guess I am using 2-3 lbs torque.
But as pointed out, the surfaces should be flat. you may have a very minor warp which is not immediately obvious, but it only needs to be a fraction of a mm to leak oil.
If you lay it face down on a sheet of thickish glass you should be able to see if it is touching all round. If it has a very minor imperfection you may be able to remove it yourself by placing wet/dry paper on the glass and rotating the cover over it - start coarse grade, finish fine. If after half hr no progress, you may want to get it machined true.
Other than that, maybe you have partially pulled a stud and raised the housing around the stud. That can probably be repaired in place too - remove stud, polish/file flat, sand smooth. Straight edge across the area.
Alan
Alan

[Alan L]

What you could do, once you have the cover nice and true, is place it on to the casing - without a gasket. Maybe gently nip 2 or 3 nuts on at 1/3 segments. Look all around the perimeter and see if you can find any gaps.
Ideally you might have been able to place a small torch in there (remove the tensioner?) and see where the light is coming from. If you did remove the tensioner you would NOT want the chain to drop loose on the crank sprocket, so could tie with wire the two legs of chain around the tensioner area - so it stays in place enough not to drop the sprocket.
Alan

[xbmwguy]

While I agree with sealant here I also trust a Porsche builder friend of mine who uses loktite 574 on all mating surfaces. He actually showed me a bulletin stating to not use the " green" sealant on the covers. I drive my car and sometimes harder than Ronnie at a Village people reunion concert, and no leaks, no oil sweat.just pulled my motor to install new Xtreme billet heads and cleaning the old 574 on towers, boxes took all of an hour.anyay just my 2. I'll be posting some new #s as I am going for 600 rwp at .9 bar and 700@ 1.4 we think we have the recipe correct now

[krasuskyp]

^ha!^

(FRANK!!!!!!!!!)

Oheggem... yeah... in my case, my cam chain tower is dripping at the bottom corner by the turbo right onto the header below. Sucks.