Replacing the turbo hasn't been so simple...

[Alan L]

Did you try the test on cold or warm engine? If cold, you put dizzy vac advance on the cold engine, which will change things (the sw should have been shutting this signal off). If warm, did you blank the ports on the switch? You could check the sw function by sucking on a tube on either nipple. Cold, should be shut, warm, open. But a useful test would be to see if the line from sw to dizzy can hold vac. maybe suck on it and place tube over tongue - see if suction holds, if no Mighty Vac.
Alan

[T77911S]

if you bypassed the TTV and the RPM went DOWN I think the TTV may be leaking.
if not leaking it may not be working(unless the engine is cold) and that line is connected to the vac retard
I would bypass it for now and run the vac line directly to the dist.
then verify you vac on the INSIDE port at idle and it goes away when you rev the engine.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Alan L

Did you try the test on cold or warm engine? If cold, you put dizzy vac advance on the cold engine, which will change things (the sw should have been shutting this signal off). If warm, did you blank the ports on the switch? You could check the sw function by sucking on a tube on either nipple. Cold, should be shut, warm, open. But a useful test would be to see if the line from sw to dizzy can hold vac. maybe suck on it and place tube over tongue - see if suction holds, if no Mighty Vac.
Alan

I don't think there's any need to "blank the ports" on the thermo valve. It just opens one side of the valve to the other, it doesn't go anywhere. The back (inside the case) part of that device is a solid brass piece.

[wholio94112]

On a cold engine, RPM dropped to a sputter before dying altogether...TTV must be defective...I can keep engine alive giving it some gas, but there's a lumpy kick in its rumble that I don't like...makes the whole engine appear to swivel right to left, like what is normal when looking at my vanagon engine from above...maybe I criss-crossed plug wires...Hell, now I'm second guessing all the new components I recently replaced - rotor, dist. cap, plugs, filters, plugs...Will try sucking and blowing the vacuum system later this afternoon, though it feels as if I am already on my knees...

[flightlead404]

oh man, you didn't mention you'd replaced all those in your initial post. Did you do all that at the same time before the issues started?

I'd make sure the distrib cap is on properly, sometimes the back clip on mine fools me that its on properly but its not. Double check plug wires are routed correctly and that they are firmly and positively clipping on to the plugs and onto the distrib cap. I use a smear of silicone grease on the cap to help them go on and keep moisture out.

I'd pull the plugs and check them. Try ohming them out - look for 5kO, check they aren't fuel or oil fouled, check the ceramic for cracks (I automatically bin any plug that has been dropped or kicked regardless). If any are fuel fouled it might be worth pulling your fuel pump relays and distrib cap and cranking the engine a bit without the plugs in to ensure you aren't flooded.

You could always put the old rotor back in to eliminate that.

[wholio94112]

Thanks flight...I did all that when I discover just how much oil got circulated around...new plugs were wet with fuel/oil as soon as I put them in, so I blew the crap out until I could start the car...I've covered those bases, but Can never rule out the possibility of knocking something else out of whack every time my hands go into the engine abyss to fetch a dropped bolt, check a wire, tie wrap a vacuum line etc...Nowadays, can't even rule out the potential for a lemon in a brand new ignition component, that's why I have the passed 3 ignition tune ups stowed away in boxes - if I could only remember where...will check wires this afternoon...

[Alan L]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I don't think there's any need to "blank the ports" on the thermo valve. It just opens one side of the valve to the other, it doesn't go anywhere. The back (inside the case) part of that device is a solid brass piece.

Yes - I think you must be right. Makes sense, sorry. Mine has been disabled/blanked off since I had the car.
Alan

[wholio94112]

Little very embarrassing update: the poor running as of late was because "somebody" reconnecting spark wires onto dist. cap in childlike fashion - as if to say, I think only 2 plug wires coincided with actual, useful spark...new dist. cap, guess I hadn't marked it up, excited that it might be the elixir to the running ailment...So, I'm back to where I started: perfect cold start, smooth drivability until reaching temperature, then she farts up a storm with increase in RPM's, slightly sputtering along...No more backfires, but definitely not right...Gotta go back and delete the TTV again...I got CIS gauge and lines today...might as well learn something new...
Just a question that seems an obvious answer, but I do not know it: Can a brand new turbo be faulty out of the box???Its the same as what I replaced, but when revving up in idle, I hear it winding up so much clearer...and I'm only pumping 3000 RPM's in the garage...Just curious...and desperate...Thanks....

[T77911S]

hearing it does not mean its bad, that's the sound we all LOVE.

faulty would be dumping oil or a metallic grinding or scraping.
I ran mine for a few 100 miles then pulled the exhaust just to see if any oil was there.
also check the input to the IC.

its always a good idea to have a baseline of where the engine is.
I have:
fuel pressure's
compression
leak down
mixture
timing

for when I got my car. one of the first things I did.

take another look at the IC ORings. I took a chunk out of one putting my IC back on. I keep a stock of 4-5 just in case I do it again so It does not keep me grounded.
there are so many places for these cars to leak air.
check the intake bolts. 18ft pounds
verify those vac hoses to the dist.
check the timing and mechanical advance. this can be done with a timing light.
remove all vac lines and rev the engine and verify the timing advances
set timing to 26 degrees with lines removed
connect the vac line that has vac on it at idle to the outside port. timing should advance.
verifies the vac advance pot.
then connect this line to the inside port. timing should retard. leave it there and reconnect the
advance port.

above 3k the system goes open loop so the O2 sensor is not used. this strictly uses CP's
verify the connector at the throttle body. this controls when the system goes open loop.

if you have a hand vac pump you can test the TTV for a vacuum leak. this is a great tool to have and a lot of them come as a break bleeding kit.

[wholio94112]

just an update, letting you guys who've helped know I haven't moved on without you...been back and forth a few times, and can't quite remember where I started, but engine is starting right up, running smooth - until it gets up to temperature...I looped the thermotime valve into itself, committed to never going into boost until she's warmed up, and I end up with the same scenario - reaches temp, begins a slight studder/burping, leading to loss of power...engine will continue to idle now, rather than die like before...It's a temperature-sensitive issue, so I'm thinking WUR or fuel pumps, though fuel output seems consistent...Is this when I need to do cold/warm/system pressure tests???Just a bit intimidated as I will be doing so on my own...Any other ideas are greatly appreciated...

[wholio94112]

I got the CIS pressure test kit the other day, and followed directions per a link found here, jimsbasementworkshop.com. simple steps, so I wanted to share my pressures, and see what you guys think is the next step...
cold system pressure (valve closed) - 6.5 bar
WUR cold control pressure (valve open) - 1.9 bar
w/ WUR plugged in thereafter - 3.0 bar
...took her for a little spin to get her to temp, which is where she really acts up, missing in a consistent, not rhythmic, tempo...got her home to get warm system pressure, which was 3.7 bar.
shut down engine - pressure immediately dropped to 2.5 bar
after 1 minute - 2.6 bar
4 minutes - 2.5 bar
10 minutes - 2.1 bar
15 minutes - 2.0 bar
...and now 2 hours later, its holding at 1.5 bar...
All seems OK, unless I'm missing something...
Any ideas/inputs is always appreciated...
What's next, CDI, Coil???

[T77911S]

6.5bar is the system pressure

did you check the frequency valve.

how does it run above 3k? how about a steady speed above 3k

[wholio94112]

6.5 is the cold system pressure, with valve leading to WUR closed...as for the frequency valve, how would I check it? I just followed the protocol from the website as it was my first time checking pressures - and didn't come to such instructions...as for running above 3K, I suppose I haven't done too much of that...When cold, it feels normal, as if there wouldn't be a problem in the higher RPM's - I am trying to stay far from boost when not at temp since I cut out the thermo-time valve...when I get to temp, low RPM's she sputters and stutters, trying to climb up in RPM's...That when I get her home...she seems to run better the higher the RPM's - even at temp...No issues when cold...No issues with start-ups - hot or cold...

[T77911S]

system pressure is not temp dependent .

when cold, you are in open loop, or no O2 sensor and the FV goes into a default setting.

make sure the FV is vibrating
did you verify that the vac hoses to the dist are connected correctly
are both advance system working. vac and mech.

drive at 3500-4500 and see how it runs. you don't have to floor it.

have you tried running without the O2 connected.

this sounds like a timing issue.

[smurfbus]

Hard to follow whats done and checked but vacuum leak comes to mind. Cracked im blocks? Broken spark plug? Melted distributor rotor?

[wholio94112]

Alright, 2 things came to light tonight...While removing the CIS pressure lines, I looked down in WUR, and am not sure what I am looking at, but it seems strange...Is it a clog, or is that what the screen should look like???
I went for a short drive, to see how she fares above 3K RPM - she slightly misses the entire climb through higher RPM's - and when I got back, at temp, I tried adjusting idle and AFR with O2 sensor disconnected...Once I got her to good numbers - and a little better sound - I reattached the sensor and AFR's went lean, high 15's low 16's...And then I remember back when the old K27 blew seals, it also blew oil all through the exhaust...and that sensor was drowning in it by the time I got to it...Is it possible it got soaked or fried, and that's what is causing my warm temp farting???WUR???
Again, can thank you all enough for the help...you Pelicans are my go to's...

[Alan L]

Looks very clogged. Should be a clean gauze. Won't help. More than 50% blocked by the pic?
May even have more crap under the disc. But doesn't really explain the temp effect - unless the cold pressures are enough to mask the issue. But you need to clean it. And probably worth checking the disc as well.
Alan

[T77911S]

that WUR will make the CP go hi making it run lean.
clean it and check system pressures.
if they are good and it runs good WO the O2, then the O2 is probably bad.

[T77911S]

makes me wonder about the condition of the FD.

[wholio94112]

What you are seeing in the picture posted above is NOT sediment, or something that is loosely collected there by the screen...It has every characteristic of a brass-colored screen, that looks as though its been disintegrating, or decomposing - for lack of a better description...I cannot just pull/scrape it out...Sorry guys but this is my first time really looking into the WUR's emotions...What does cleaning entail, and/or is it time to send it off for rebuild/BrianLeask-ification???Thanks...