wasted spark COP with EDIS6 module
 

Looking for a way to run coil on plug(wasted spark) with the EDIS6 module. I have a Microsquirt v3, and currently run standard EDIS6 with the coil pack. I have found bits and pieces of how to do this, but not sure exactly how to do it. I just want to get rid of the big coil pack, with all of the wires running around the engine bay. Here is what i can gather.
1. Using 2 EDIS6 modules. I assume you just wire the modules in parallel with each other, then just use 1 channel from each output to run 1 coil pack?
2. Using 1 EDIS6 module, and wiring the opposite coil pack in series?
I know it has been done before, but there just isn't any information(that i can find) to make this work. I would love to use the Denso Kawasaki motorcycle coils. If anyone can give me some insight on this, that would be super helpful.

Adam ( no carrier) is out of town till Monday. He is currently doing that but with ms3 pro

I ran MegaJolt on my 73 911T Chumpcar.

The megajolt was slick because you get 2 10x10 ignition maps you program with load vs RPM and you input an advance number. I has the 'stock' and RS curves and you could switch between the 2 with a toggle switch on the dash.

I pulled the wiring harnes out of a Ford ranger so I had factory shielded wires. I also used the EDIS6 box from the same truck.

For the crank trigger, I got a goingsuperfast crank pulley off of eBay an their pickup mount. They include a plug for the distributor hole.

I used a coil pack from a Dodge minivan because Ford had oddball ends on their plug wires. I still had to modify the Porsche wires so I was no further ahead.

The challenges I ran into: the GSF crank pulley required a bit of grinding on the mag case of a 2.7 to fit. The belt size for this pulley took some trial and error to sort out.

The system took under 4 hours to install (clearancing the case took some time). It was super reliable, and gave good power on a 2.7 with modified Zenith carbs.

For load, you can go with throttle position sensor or manifold pressure. I went with maf. I used the ports on each of the zenith barrels and ran lines up to a vacuum pot with on line leading to the maf sensor in the megajolt box.

https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/megajolte/

I already have Microsquirt V3 running EDIS6 with the ford coil pack. Already using the GSF crank pulley, and VR sensor also with great success. Just wanting to clean things up a bit. I really didn't like how i had the Ford coil pack mounted. I thought i would clean things up a bit since i had the engine out to repair an exploded 2nd gearset in my transmission. Anyone have any insight how i can do COP with the EDIS6 module?

I actually just found a thread where a guy had a lexus V8 engine running COP with 2 EDIS8 modules, and it worked well. I think i am going to try another EDIS6 module with the Kawasaki Ninja COP coils, i will run 1 bank per EDIS module.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492274651.jpg

Join "MegaSquirt Addicts" on FB. Your answer will be given within 5 minutes.

I rather you have a board made and ditch those modules IMO...

That's awesome. For a 6 cylinder, would you run 2 EDIS 6 boxes?

It appears that way... I will let you know. Got the coils coming. I already have the extra module. I will see if it works!

What does COP give apart from higher RPM and cool factor?

I'm going to go this path again on my next 2.7 build and have been contemplating twin plug and high compression.

COP only gives you headroom if you run sequential. I was going wasted spark and realized I was getting to the point of no dead time or decreased dwell time around 7k IIRC.

Beauty of COP is not having nasty plug wires.

I don't really think there will be any performance gain whatsoever. It just cleans the engine bay up a bit. I was using the Ford EDIS coil pack. There just wasn't a great place to mount it. If i ever decide to upgrade from the Microsquirt to say MS3 Pro, i will already have COP. All it will take is a quick rewire, and the addition of a camshaft position sensor, and you are in business with full sequential spark control.
I have been more than happy with the Microsquirt, it does everything i need it to do. i doubt i will ever need anything else, BUT you never know....

For those wondering, I got another EDIS6 module, and wired the VR sensor, and SAW in parallel. I bought 8 used denso pencil coils for $40, and used 2 ignition harnesses from a CBR929. For a total of $65, I did a wasted spark coil on plug set up. I should have my transmission back together this week, and the driveline back in the car this weekend, so I won't know if it's a success until this weekend


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1493079405.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1493079405.JPG

Just in case someone is following this post, or for future reference. I finished up the car today, and the car started right up with the wasted spark COP set up. No changes to tunerstudio, nothing. Runs great. It is probably the most simple way to go COP. $65 in used parts got me everything i needed to do this conversion.

Scott

This looks pretty cool. I'm using a microsquirt 3 already to control the fuel with the lambda valve, I'd love to add fully programmable ignition as well, and this looks like an easy way to do it.

Can you tell me the part #'s for the coils, and which plugs you're using?

Also, are you driving a factory tach with the microsquirt? How so?

Cheers

I used the Denso 129700-3880 coils. They come on several different motorcycles from the mid 2000s. I am using just the standard BPR7ES plugs. You have to screw the tips off of them to make them work with the motorcycle coils.
On the tach, i just connected the microsquirt Tachout wire and hooked it up the tach signal wire that is attached to the factory harness. the EDIS module also has a tachout wire that you can hook up alternately.

What EDIS 6 module manufacturer/part number?

I'm having the devil of a time finding that Denso part also. Plenty of 129700-xxxx but no 3880. Any idea what year/vehicle? How is the fitment, are they flush with the valve cover, reasonably snug etc?

I've been reading that some of the EDIS modules have built-in 6,300 rpm rev limiter, any issues with that?

The coil packs came from a 2001 Honda CBR 929. the last 4 digits are the length from what i understand. I believe you could go a little bit shorter. mine stick out just a little bit. I have my rev limiter set to 6750rpms, and just looked back on some datalogs, and it confirms that i have been running up to 6750rpms. I wasn't aware of the 6300 limiter, but after looking, there are many confirming just that. The modules i have been using is out of a early-mid 90s ford ranger/explorer.

Thanks for the info.

I'm struggling now with if there's another way to do COP with the Microsquirt V3 without the EDIS modules, and be able to mount everything where the current CDI box is now. EDIS has the benefit of being a little simpler (crank sensor only no cam sensor needed) and has the limp home mode, but on the other hand doesn't support some advanced things like the various spark cut or retard modes for rev limiting, launch control etc.

I'm going to have the engine out to put on the crank pickup and new cams so adding a cam sensor probably isn't that big a deal to do at the same time.

unfortunately you can only run sequential ignition with Microsquirt v3 on a 4 cylinder engine.
I am pretty sure you can use the EDIS for some advanced things, I am using spark cut for my rev limiter(i think), I dont know about launch control. It seems that you are close to outgrowing the microsquirt. May be time for Megasquirt 3 Pro.
You may be able to use 2 quad spark modules and do away with the EDIS, or maybe a Bosch 3 channel ignition module? The EDIS modules fit quite well where the stock CDI box used to sit. I think Nocarrier posted up a pic of his set up with both edis modules in the stock location.

Here's a couple of coil options:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/587211-935-suspension-moton-coilovers-street-4.html#post7857172

You can usually find low mileage used coils on Ebay.

I'm still trying to understand why you need two EDIS 6 modules for COP.

Can someone explain it to a dummy like me? :confused:

I was running the early 2000's Dodge Caravan coil and using the QuadSpark Four Channel Ignition Module from DIYautotune on my na 3.0 with MS2 (I decided to get away from edis just because it took up some space).

My next step is to use LS coils with a short wire and maybe move to the next level of MS with built in ignition control. I bought eight new coils with wiring and mounting bracket fairly cheaply. The bracket looks like it can work with a little fabrication and cutting the last coil off each side.

I also have edis-4 running with MS2 on my 1.8 ltr turbo BMW Race Car. This is where I cut my teeth on MS and EDIS.

The EDIS does not have enough energy to fire 2 coils at once. The coil packs they use are normally only running 3 coils. People have tried to run them in series, instead of parallel with 1 module,but they still encounter misfires at higher RPMs.

Even with 3/4 wire COPs with the igniter on the coil? (These are the so-called "smart" COPs right?)

In a forced induction engine I suppose we need even more spark energy at high MAP too.

I want to use COP if I can simply for space and mounting considerations. I can mount two EDIS6 modules where the current CDI box is and have a nice clean installation. If I go CNP I'm not sure where/how I'd mount the coils.

I don't believe edis will control the "smart" coils. Even if you used the quad spark, you would have to use 2 of them. Edis is probably the most crude way to run a distributor less ignition, in fact, megasquirt sees edis as an electronic distributor, but it works, and it is reliable. Keep in mind, I am using a microsquirt v3.

I'll have to do a bit more reading. I thought the diff with the smart vs dumb coils is just that the input is a logic level trigger (going low I think) and they have their own power supply for charging.

If that is the case it might allow for the "two coils in series" solution to work ok.

I'll read on...

Scott,

I’m replicating this on my SC and wanted to confirm you are running Coil A on controller 1 to cylinder 1 and Coil A on controller 2 to cylinder 4. So wiring would look like:

Controller 1 Coil A Cyl 1
Controller 2 Coil A Cyl 4
Controller 1 Coil B Cyl 6
Controller 2 Coil B Cyl 3
Controller 1 Coil C Cyl 2
Controller 2 Coil C Cyl 5

Just let me know if this looks right or if I’ve buggered it all up. Thanks!

-Steve

Steve, just saw this, don’t get on here much, yes that is the way I did it. I used 1 EDIS module per bank basically. Let me know if you had success. The guy I sold my car. To has had some random misfires on this set up especially when it’s hot outside,but I believe that the motorcycle coils I used just can’t hold up to the heat.

From what I can tell, and the way I'm building mine out, EDIS is not required with Microsquirt V3 and smart coils.

You don’t have enough ignition drivers with microsquirt. I believe there are only 2. You need 3 for a wasted spark configuration. I believe you would still have to use the opti spark box to make it work, which is basically the same as an EDIS module. You MIGHT be able to program another output to control your third channel with some modifications. I love the microsquirt, but it has its limitations. If you are able to do it, please let me know.

you can repurpose WLED and ALED for Spark C and D. They do need a pullup to vref via 100 ohm resistor.

If you add a third ignition output to Microsquirt, then you can use logic level (5vdc) smart coils. Toyota/Denso 90919-02234 coils work well with MS3/MS3X or MS3Pro because the input impedance of the coil logic circuit is high enough to not draw too much current from the ECU chip, but probably not an issue for Microsquirt if you use a regular transistor to control the logic signal. I only mention this if you plan to upgrade to MS3/MS3x of MS3Pro in the future. If you do not get the Toyota coil connectors from a junk yard, connectors are available on-line; CONN-85727(pigtail) or CONN-75727(connector kit).

You could still use the EDIS module to control smart coils, but you would have to knock down the 12vdc signal output to the coil to 5vdc using a simple resistor voltage divider circuit or a buffer circuit.

Those are exactly the coils I got. I don't mess around with pulling used bits off at the junk yard though, I just buy new :)

Are you suggesting I can't control the coil directly from the MicroSquirt but need a transistor to switch the logic output?

Maybe 2n3906 since it'll be a low side load? I wouldn't need a TIP120 would I?

I'm in the middle of researching Microsquirt for my 3.0 SC and pretty deep down the rabbit hole. I was going to do fuel only but looks like adding ignition is pretty straightforward. Was going to do EDIS but I love simplicity and the more I read, it seems like just running 'smart' Denso coils in a wasted spark arrangement would be pretty simple. I'm thinking wired up into pairs (1&4 IGN1, 3&6 IGN2, 2&5 WLED w/resistor?) would work.

Am I missing something, why run EDIS modules at all if you're already going to run COP?

That is my plan, no EDIS. However you'll need to add a crank position sensor. Turbocraft has one that will need your flywheel machined for 60-2 and a chunk of metal taken out of the transmission housing (easier than it sounds). If you aren't taking the trans out there are a couple of options.

The easiest is to add a toothed wheel to the pulley wheel at the front. Short of that I think you can modify the distributor to remove any centrifugal advance and removing any vacuum advance/retard then using the reluctor as a pick up should also work (remember it turns at half crank speed).