Teardown Inspection Results of Garrett Copy Turbocharger

[copbait73]

I took the opportunity to conduct a teardown inspection of a small Garrett TA32 China based clone turbocharger. This turbo came to me in a used VW Type 1 EFI/Turbo system I bought.

A quick overall inspection showed visible shaft runout to be acceptable. Shaft end play felt acceptable. There was no compressor wheel rub but components showed high manufactured running clearance. Turbine wheel inspection showed excessive radial movement at the turbine wheel and coked lube (turbine bearing). Manufactured running clearance appeared high. As presented the end housings are good copies of Garrett castings and are probably interchangeable with true Garrett. Markings show them to be other than Garrett.

The bearing housing was Garrett, shows the flying "A" carried over from AiResearch.
The rotating group and bearing components were not Garrett. Based on appearance and markings.

Cause of failure was obsolete journal bearing material. Secondary failure of the turbine seal ring (collapsed) also due to obsolete turbine seal material. Also observed, thrust bearing had additional feed hole plus added slotting, both contribute to worse thrust load performance and unnecessary increased oil flow. Thrust bearing socket head retaining screws were soft and rounded on removal. Required grinding the heads off to remove the thrust bearing. Soft screws break in assembly and or operation.

Regarding the journal bearings and turbine seal ring, the root cause of failure, these were typically used 35 years ago but were replaced in all diesel applications back then. They were never used in turbo assemblies spec'd for gas engine application because of their much higher turbine end shutdown temperatures.

Be warned, these findings possibly apply to many other China based turbochargers and their service kits.

[Tippy]

Very nice write-up. These Garrett copies are flooding the market in the non-Porsche world. Many hold up just fine, but occasionally, one becomes a grenade.

Most people roll the dice since they are so cheap.

[copbait73]

Thanks. This unit came from the SoCal scene. The center housing rotating assembly (CHRA) was probably custom assembled of the least expensive Garrett interchange service parts available, indicated, then properly balanced.

It performed for a while but the early failure would have been predictable for anyone with industry engineering background deeper than an independent turbo sales and service operation.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Marty, too bad you don't live in Australia - would be fascinating to see what you would find if you tore down Steve's (SBK930) turbocharger (twice re-built now and still blowing oil from both ends).

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Marty, too bad you don't live in Australia - would be fascinating to see what you would find if you tore down Steve's (SBK930) turbocharger (twice re-built now and still blowing oil from both ends).

This is no exaggeration, I have conducted reviews on thousands of turbos. There is very little new out there. It really helped me that in my formative years I set up extreme conditions to produce failures, then did detail analysis of the results.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by copbait73

It really helped me that in my formative years I set up extreme conditions to produce failures,

Plus, I bet that was a hell of a lot of fun!

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Plus, I bet that was a hell of a lot of fun!

Actually it really was because I spent too much of my time sitting in meetings.
Sometimes field investigations were like a full on CSI activity.

When I contacted the seller I tried to negotiate the turbo out of the deal. From the pictures It was obviously not Garrett and he said it needed rebuilding. I have a shop full of turbos, I didn't need this junk, much less pay shipping it to me.

Anyway it was mine and when the hardware arrived this caught my eye, pic below.
Looking at this hardware selection I jumped to the conclusion; hack mechanic, extraneous hardware in one of the wheels.

Actually, true to experience this jump to a conclusion was wrong which is why I always instructed students to wait until every component and condition was exposed and listed before arriving at a finding.

[SBK930]

Originally Posted by copbait73

This is no exaggeration, I have conducted reviews on thousands of turbos. There is very little new out there. It really helped me that in my formative years I set up extreme conditions to produce failures, then did detail analysis of the results.

Hello copbait / Marty,
At this stage I am considering a new replacement for my turbo as I have diminishing alternatives. Should this be the way I choose I too would be fascinated to hear what your thoughts would be on the assembly/condition of my 7006. I would of course have to send it to you and considering the cost it could be done if you are happy to tear it down.
Steve.

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by SBK930

Hello copbait / Marty,
At this stage I am considering a new replacement for my turbo as I have diminishing alternatives. Should this be the way I choose I too would be fascinated to hear what your thoughts would be on the assembly/condition of my 7006. I would of course have to send it to you and considering the cost it could be done if you are happy to tear it down.
Steve.

Steve, while I would be very happy to do this for you if you lived here in the states I just sent a similar weight package to Australia and it cost me $90.
I don't think it is a wise expenditure for you in this situation. I repeat my recommendation that you buy a new factory turbo. Spend this money to get it from the 'states if that is what it takes to be satisfied it isn't counterfeit.

For most of my life turbos were rare and expensive because they were well engineered, reliable and of limited supply. The same applied in the service market because most used factory center housing rotating assemblies for their rebuilds or gave you core value toward a true factory remanufactured Turbo. Now the market is flooded with look alike junk some selling for as little as $200. Some units I have seen have no value as they can not spin without failing. No better than a fake Rolex watch.

[SBK930]

Originally Posted by copbait73

Steve, while I would be very happy to do this for you if you lived here in the states I just sent a similar weight package to Australia and it cost me $90.
I don't think it is a wise expenditure for you in this situation. I repeat my recommendation that you buy a new factory turbo. Spend this money to get it from the 'states if that is what it takes to be satisfied it isn't counterfeit.

For most of my life turbos were rare and expensive because they were well engineered, reliable and of limited supply. The same applied in the service market because most used factory center housing rotating assemblies for their rebuilds or gave you core value toward a true factory remanufactured Turbo. Now the market is flooded with look alike junk some selling for as little as $200. Some units I have seen have no value as they can not spin without failing. No better than a fake Rolex watch.

Thanks for the reply Copbait,
Can you recommend your preferred supplier of new factory turbos ?
At this point the cost of freight will out weigh the cost of crap turbos here.

[copbait73]

Originally Posted by SBK930

Thanks for the reply Copbait,
Can you recommend your preferred supplier of new factory turbos ?
At this point the cost of freight will out weigh the cost of crap turbos here.

Chris at Turbocraft for Garrett (Honeywell) and Brian at RarlyL8 for BorgWarner (KKk/3K)

As an insider, I would still need to physically inspect something I purchased in the turbo aftermarket today. I know these two guys will deliver a real factory product. These guys are fellow Pelicans and have established their businesses on quality products and their honesty. They care for you and they know their turbos. If I bought turbos I'd buy from them.

[SBK930]

Originally Posted by copbait73

Chris at Turbocraft for Garrett (Honeywell) and Brian at RarlyL8 for BorgWarner (KKk/3K)

As an insider, I would still need to physically inspect something I purchased in the turbo aftermarket today. I know these two guys will deliver a real factory product. These guys are fellow Pelicans and have established their businesses on quality products and their honesty. They care for you and they know their turbos. If I bought turbos I'd buy from them.

Thanks mate.

[TurboKraft]

SBK -- we have new K27-7200 turbos in stock, plus compressor outlet adapters, special hanger brackets, etc.

We get turbos from everywhere for remanufacturing, too -- Hong Kong, Kuwait, Sao Paulo. Our rebuilder can make it better-than-new.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

SBK -- we have new K27-7200 turbos in stock, plus compressor outlet adapters, special hanger brackets, etc.

We get turbos from everywhere for remanufacturing, too -- Hong Kong, Kuwait, Sao Paulo. Our rebuilder can make it better-than-new.

Chris

I was looking on your website but didn't see it. Do you have a replacement for the bracket the turbo hangs on that is predrilled etc for the correct alignment for a K27 turbo? Mines been cut and bent for 3 different turbo installations and now I'm having trouble getting things nicely aligned.

[WERK I]

^^^^
I'm also interested in the TurboKraft-engineered turbo hanger. Also, does the revised hanger give the installer flexibility adjusting the clocking of the turbine housing to improve the exhaust geometry?