Ramp bolts leaking oil!

[Robert59095]

Hi, All -

Just finished a full-on engine rebuild (2.7 twin-plug 10.5:1) over the winter. The car runs great, BUT, on the passenger side of the engine, I am getting oil leaking out all over the place from the ramp bolts. I was able to remove three of them and use a new brass crush washer, torqued them down to spec, and it's still leaking oil. The lowest one (which is one that I was indeed able to remove) apparently sits in crankcase oil (it came out when I removed the bolt) - I thought I had the leak whipped, since this is one of the three that I put new brass crush washers on. No deal.

Has anyone had this problem and does anyone have any suggestions for stopping the leaking? I did the passenger side exactly like the drivers side, yet the drivers side is tight and dry. How annoying!

Thanks for anything!

- Rob

[Robert59095]

If my oil were dirtier, this would make more sense. Oil pours off the face of the case where the ramp bolts are . . .

[colingreene]

pull them, clean them apply loctite 545 and it will never leak again.

[infraredcalvin]

Appears you have a leak at the chain covers too, use the same method... good luck!

[ed mayo]

They use aluminum washers,,,,and now that you have removed the bolts you'll have to remove the chain housing covers to insure you got the chain guide bolt into the chain ramp lock tab. The ramp needs to be braced from the back side when installing the bolt. Just like you did when assembling it.

[brighton911]

What Ed said. Very risky to remove bolts and assume all is well with the guides. Take the time to remove the covers and ensure the guides are OK. Without opening the lock tab on the guide just a bit, it often breaks off.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by ed mayo

They use aluminum washers,,,,and now that you have removed the bolts you'll have to remove the chain housing covers to insure you got the chain guide bolt into the chain ramp lock tab. The ramp needs to be braced from the back side when installing the bolt. Just like you did when assembling it.

Good to see a voice of reason, so many get misguided via velocity channel mechanics.

[Robert59095]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Ed - you are right about the aluminum washers. I put on brass replacements, since that is what I had. Aluminum is softer and easier to squish. I will round up aluminum ones and try again, this time with Loctite 545.

I am aware of the lock tabs on the ramps. By my "logic", if I only take one bolt out at a time, the ramps will stay where they belong since the chains are tensioning them in place. Geez, I would really not like to pull the chain housing covers for obvious reasons! If it gets to it, of course that is what I will do.

[KTL]

I'd suggest using a non-hardening sealant if you're going to resort to that. I think colingreene mis-spoke about loctite 545 and may have been referring to use of the typical orange loctite 574 that is used for the engine case parting line and various other spots on the engine? 545 is a similar purple anaerobic liquid that's typically used for threaded hydraulic and compressed air systems.

I'd suggest using something like the green Curil T sticky goop, Permatex aviation sealer (brown sticky goop) or something similar that is non-hardening and easily cleans up with solvent later on.

I agree with the other guys that you should ensure the ramps are fully engaged in the ramp holes. I believe only end of the ramp has the lock tab and the other is a much less forceful fit.

[targa72e]

I have had one of the tabs on the ramps break off when removing bolts. You should remove the chain cover on that side so you can make sure everything is ok. Don't want ramp coming off or little piece of plastic getting chewed up in the engine.

john

[boosted79]

Back them out a little, clean well with brake cleaner, goop on some 3H or Curil T, retighten, clean off excess. Done. Some people can make the simplest job into brain surgery.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by boosted79

Back them out a little, clean well with brake cleaner, goop on some 3H or Curil T, retighten, clean off excess. Done. Some people can make the simplest job into brain surgery.

Yep... this isn't a pressurized area, leaking if any, is just from splashing oil. Wouldn't take much to stop it.

[Robert59095]

Targa, Boosted, and BPU -

Thank you for your input. Though I respect the input from Mr. Mayo, you are right that it isn't a pressurized area and "should" be easy to seal. I have ordered another chain housing cover gasket, one ramp and one brown ramp just in case. How would I know if I have broken a ramp tab, assuming the chain housing cover is off and I can see in there?

I would think the tabs function is to keep the ramp in place with respect to the chain. Won't the chain do that in the absence of the tabs? I am just curious about this - the ramps are cheap and I am expecting to replace both when the chain housing cover is off.

- Rob

[boosted79]

Why are you removing the chain box cover? There is about 4 mm between the ramp and the right case. There is only about one turn on the left bolts before the ramp hits the case. The ramp will move back towards the case as you loosen the bolts since the ramp locks locate it on the bolt. Once the ramp hits the case the bolt will then start backing out of the lock and you'll feel the resistance turning the bolt by hand. You don't want to back it out that far. So back out the left side bolts about half a turn and the right side a couple turns, clean, seal, tighten.

No, the chain will not locate the ramps, the ramps are held in position by the locks and the groove in the bolts.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by ed mayo

They use aluminum washers,,,,and now that you have removed the bolts you'll have to remove the chain housing covers to insure you got the chain guide bolt into the chain ramp lock tab. The ramp needs to be braced from the back side when installing the bolt. Just like you did when assembling it.

Rob,

You obviously have not installed many plastic chain ramps or rebuilt engines. Once you removed the chain ramp bolt for the pointed end of the ramp where the locking tab is located, installing the bolt back will not guarantee you to get the correct position of the ramp. The only way to guarantee it is to have a visual inspection like you did during assembly. You would be lucky if you could get one ramp correctly installed after you removed and installed the ramp bolt/s. Keep us posted.

Tony

[Robert59095]

Is seems that someone (ahem!) left a stud out when he surface-plated the chain case housing mating area of the case smooth and flat. It was the one *above* the ramp bolts, so it soaked all the bolts on the way down to spraying on my freshly-coated muffler!

[ed mayo]

Okay,,, that should suffice for a public whipping,,,we can move on now Confession is good for the soul

[Robert59095]

Thanks, Ed!

[Mark Henry]

I've been using loctite SI 5900, porsche spec sealant for 996 engines.
Yes it's RTV, get over it, it's not the old permatex. If applied right minimal squeeze out that stays put, not affected by oil/gas, great for this app.