What is the trickiest part of your first 911 engine rebuild
 

Just to keep it interesting, I'd be starting with a 2.7 (but its from a 1974 non-thermal reactor car at least).

Thanks!

In your case, it will be getting the magnesium case properly machined back to stock specs. Everything else is cake!

Be patient. If you are not certain about a process - stop and research the solution.

Getting the 2 #1 bearing studs lined up, the intermediate shaft stud lined up and having the 3 upward rods standing while lowering the case half down.
And don’t touch the sealant...
Bruce

Explaining to my wife why Porsche parts cost so much.

Use the metal rod holders. Sooooo much better, no drama at all.

Thanks for all of the responses gentlemen.

I'd send the case out, so were back to the "why is this so expensive" warning. Grin.

Does Wayne's book cover it well enough that, along with coaching here, it's all covered?

^yes, assuming you have basic mechanical skills.

At this point I’d like to think so!

Thanks for the encouragement.

Wayne's book is a MUST.

Any machine work will need to be done by an experienced machine shop. I know nothing about the 2.7 case other than the expense involved in getting it ready for a rebuild. The heads need to be done by a recommended shop.

I keep hearing about This book of Wayne. :). Is it equally valuable for a 3.6 964 build?

Great question. It is not specific to the 3.6. You will get the right idea - works ok when combined with factory manual.

I found the information on the 3.6 limited. The 3.0, and 2.7 information is vast. Wayne’s book is must for me. I also use the factory manual and the Bentley service book.

Tricky Engine Build Stuff
 

I would have to say there were 2 steps / processes that made me second guess if I really knew what I was doing & not sure if it got it right:

(1) Installing new cam's & confirming that the cam sprockets were spaced correctly. Measured 20 times, installed once...

(2) Cam timing. Never really felt like it was a precise setting - felt like it was slightly better than ballpark close... Measured x 20, installed once...

Gordo

That will be the approach I need too.

I also wanted to ask if there is a middle ground of taking everting apart and getting the machine work done at a known shop and having a builder assemble?

Measuring chain wheel parallelism without the proper tools.

By all means do it yourself - you'll learn a lot. Wayne's book covers just about everything. I also like Bruce Anderson's (the RIP Bruce)book on the 911. Good to have both. Factory manuals are nice, but they are made for factory trained mechanics, and often it is hard to figure out what is old and what is new because they had an original two volume set, and then came out with four additional volumes, and various things simply aren't mentioned (for instance, while Wayne gives a head stud and cam carrier stud bolt tightening pattern, the factory manual makes no mention of this).

Because you have a 2.7, the cams are easier to set than the later center bolt cams. You do need the cam tools, but once you realize that there is some slop in the pin, and with care you can wiggle it to where you want to be once you have things lined up within the spec you want, partly tighten, recheck, and then - if within spec - torque down, you can get it.

Thanks Walt. Do I need to buy those tools or can I likely track down loaners in SoCal?

Where would you all recommend sending the heads? Case?

You need the C shaped large (46mm??)offset socket, and the cam holder (the end of the cam is a circle with two opposite sides sliced off). You can use a breaker bar for removal of the big nut, and your torque wrench for the final tightening. I need a piece of 1/2" iron pipe 3 or 4 feet long to slip over the rod which sticks out of the cam holder. You need to slip it all the way up to the head, because if you just put it on half way the rod will bend - a lot of torque on this big nut.

I like to use a (46mm??)3/4" or inch equivalent socket with an impact wrench to remove this big nut because I don't have to hold the cam, but the adapter works just fine for this, just takes a bit more time and effort.

I'm sure you will find someone near where you live who can lend you these tools.

Mind you, this only applies to that actual 2.7 engine you mention. The 3.2s in your inventory require only one special cam tool, though it is quite different.

Super helpful Walt, thank you.

What do you guys think of my idea to disassemble and get all the machining done and then have a pro put it back together? The machining would obviously have to be to the professional shop’s standards and most likely via their preferred shop .

finding the money to pay for it.

Ha, and likely true.

Good to meet you the other day, small world!

For me it was cam timing. Every time you tighten the big bolt to the spec tightness it messes with the timing. The crow foot thing does not want to stay on the bolt while applying equal counter pressure to keep the cam from turning.

Chris

73 E

The Stomski set of specialized tools make some difficult tasks, less so (and a lot more accurate)
Pricey, but after I used one, I no longer had buyers remorse.

send your engine case to Engine Machine Shop by the LAX...they know their stuff
They can balance all the engine parts,crank ,pistons,rods....plus the valve jobs..i took all my engine pieces there for cleaning and machining

Ivan

That is more local to me than Ollie’s. That said, Ollie’s were super helpful when I called yesterday.

Thanks for the referral Ivan, will ring them.

What do you think an all-in machining ballpark cost to do a 2.7 right would be, case savers and heads with new pistons and jugs etc?

$4,000 to $6,000?

My 2.7 had a bunch of issues and cost me over $7K to machine right at Competition Engineering.

In fact, that was the impetus for starting to build my own cases.

I'd say a decent mag case should be minimum 2-3K to do correctly.

Thanks, and OUCH.

Figure there is about $1500-2000 in extra cost for it being a 2.7 case over a similar condition 3.0 machine work?

You could send it out for machine work etc, and then pay to reassemble. But these are time consuming engines - especially from the case up. Labour of love as much as mechanical skill. You will chew a lot of $s up paying to reassemble. That is obviously a route many take tho and having an experienced builder on the job is peace of mind. There are plenty of things that can go wrong - oil leaks at the case end are really frustrating, incorrect alignment of cam sprockets - expensive wear/tear etc etc. The forum is full of jobs that didn't go quite right - first time. But if you feel competent and up for it, with Waynes book and the forum, you can do it. Don't expect things to move quickly, and don't be in a hurry to finish it. Basically do it once.
Regards
Alan

well..the prices have changed since i was there last time in 2009 then i departed for Europe..Give them a call ....

Thanks gentlemen

If you're interested in giving me feedback and maybe working with me to refine it, I'm currently working on a design for a plastic block that bolts to your case and holds a carpenters straight edge for checking the cam sprocket parallelization. I'll give you one for free if you help me finish it. Its tested on a 930 case only to date.

Otherwise you'll really need a helper or 3rd hand.

There's one other thing that people haven't really addressed here, but bit me in the butt during my rather protracted engine mod process.

Be organized. Very, very, very organized. Especially if you are doing a project like I was where I was interrupted, and there were often weeks I couldn't work on it, and the workshop (hangar in my case) is full of other projects.

I lost an entire weekend looking for my scavenge pump. I put stuff in baggies and marked, but still ended up missing items or having items that were unlabeled. You think you'll remember everything. You won't.

Take lots of pics, and save them off somewhere organized, as you remove, strip, and disassemble the motor and accessories. Hose routing, orientation of brackets, label connectors with a bit of tape, label which relay or connector is which on the wiring harness.

Yes, because the magnesium cases all need flattening, most of the spigots are oblong and not flat, needs case savers, etc etc etc.

I have a mag case 2.7 in my 914-6. Nothing else sounds like it. But it is such a ridiculous financial proposition and it comes with no guarantees that it will remain failure free after a rebuild. It's just a crap place to start a build, period end.

I’m still in the planning process but am happy to help when I dive in. I can probably scare up a block before then as a test loaner if that would help.

Flightlead - you know Pelican sells the Stomski tool, right? Isn't aluminum a better material for a holder? One of the good things about the Stomski tool is that it comes with a Sterret proper length straight edge. That's top of the line.

I used to try doing this with a metal carpenter's square with the short leg cut off. You can hold it against the intermediate shaft housing and, by being careful, get it true (though it is very easy to have it rock a little and still feel like it is square). Using the depth caliper with one hand is the challenge. My readings were very hard to repeat. A holder does away with all this. Maybe the carpenter's square was true enough for this work (you only need to be as close as the shims allow), or maybe not.

1. Sealing the case
2. Cam Timing.

regards,
al

Thanks Al

OK. Here goes.

Placing the two case halves together, making SURE, the oil pump seals stayed put.

Installing the piston circlips. The tool is a MUST with JE pistons. You may want to buy a couple of spares, AHIK.

And yea, timing the cams with the new style bolt, good luck.

Circlips....+1...the Stomski tool is a must.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/STOMSKISR073.htm?pn=STOMSKI-SR073&gclid=CjwKCAjw5dnmBRACEiwAmMYGORGPeU4Vvk_mwo Yirx31S14v9kZnPS7mH6qhCycdwtkCZctX2p8q_BoC458QAvD_ BwE

This one?

Yes, maybe. Depends if you have an SC or Carrera and Mahle or JE pistons.

I made my own. Not hard to do.