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-   -   Back in the head stud game again. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1040864-back-head-stud-game-again.html)

Neil Harvey 09-23-2019 02:28 PM

Back in the head stud game again.
 
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1569276868.jpg

After many years not producing these , have decided to do this again. Years ago we made and sold these but stopped when our focus went away from the air cooled engines.

Having got back into the air cooled business again, we took a look at this and saw that our air cooled engine projects could use a stud with our finger prints all over them. Some added features we did not have in the past are included.

These are currently undergoing testing and hopefully into full production in October, available maybe mid October. Cost is still under review but expected to be competitively priced with others on the market.

Are these better than anything else sold today. I would never trash another make or say our are better. They may have some features not available in others making the use easier, possibly. But our main purpose for doing this is to offer as many of our own signature parts in our engines as possible. If anyone else would like to use, we are making them available. As with all of our current parts, they carry our level of quality.

We are also offering exhaust studs and case through bolts that will also act as a dowel at the split line, not requiring solid or hollow dowels to be fitted.

The projects we are currently involved in have dictated the need for superior and lighter parts. To this end we are changing over all of the non critical engine fasteners to Titanium, including all of the perimeter studs, washers and nuts.

Lapkritis 09-23-2019 02:31 PM

What alloy family?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Walt Fricke 09-24-2019 01:01 PM

Nice combination of a rounded (bullet nose)top (so the washers and nuts will drop on easily) and a hex so they can be screwed in easily with a tool, especially after cylinders etc are in place.

Though I kind of like the idea of using finer threads with flange nuts for the top, which the SuperTec studs have. Same benefit for hitting the torque specs as with the case through bolts Porsche ended up doing. Easy to use flange nuts on the regular threads, though, so the benefit of not messing with the barrel nuts isn't bolt specific.

(oops - found it)

Catorce 09-24-2019 01:42 PM

Wow Neil, those are gorgeous. I'll recommend those 100% to my case customers.

Love to see a set

ARCSinAK 09-24-2019 02:10 PM

Intersted.

Neil Harvey 09-24-2019 04:41 PM

Upper threads are 3/8" x 24. This has pitch of 24 which is 0.042" and 1.0mm is 0.039". Its what would be commonly known as an imperial fine thread/pitch.

We went back and forth on what we should use and in the end went with the imperial size as these nuts are easy to find anywhere if you ever needed one quickly.

The washers can either be stepped or flat with a serrated face to help with the friction. They will come in hardened steel or Titanium. Nuts are 12 pt and will be hardened steel or Titanium.

Neil Harvey 09-24-2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke (Post 10602881)
Nice combination of a rounded (bullet nose)top (so the washers and nuts will drop on easily) and a hex so they can be screwed in easily with a tool, especially after cylinders etc are in place.

Though I kind of like the idea of using finer threads with flange nuts for the top, which the SuperTec studs have. Same benefit for hitting the torque specs as with the case through bolts Porsche ended up doing. Easy to use flange nuts on the regular threads, though, so the benefit of not messing with the barrel nuts isn't bolt specific.

(oops - found it)

We have done a huge amount of testing on these studs and the procedures in tightening the nuts. We found in our testing that the stretch and tensile changed due to an increase in friction when the washer could turn some. The nut would bite into the washer and turn the washer on the base and this added to the friction the torque had to overcome.

We never tested a nut with a flange so the result of such a test is unknown. However, my thoughts would be that this would increase the friction more as there would not be any slip between the nut and the washer.

I idea is to minimize the friction in the threads, nut and the washer and eliminate the shearing friction between the washer and the softer head material. Removing movement between the washer and head decreased the friction dramatically.

The same can be said for the use of a stepped washer. This is my choice with these heads. The step eliminates the head from collapsing inwards towards the stud under compression. When this happens, the washer platform in the head concaves and the whole tightening function is compromised.

mike sampsel 09-24-2019 07:05 PM

Things of beauty for sure. Makes me wish I was building an engine.

Walt Fricke 09-24-2019 07:48 PM

While it might be tedious, could a person set up a dial indicator, with some kind of holder so it could be moved out of the way and back again without losing its register, so to speak, to measure the stretch from the tip of the stud?

Though once the variables are accounted for, the usual methods (which take those into account one supposes) seem to work well enough, at least for stock compressions.

Jeff Alton 09-24-2019 08:31 PM

Neil,

Good to hear there will be another option out there for builders. I do like the hex on the top, certainly makes install a bit easier than using a stud installer. I do wish the top threads were Metric. For no other reason than consistency throughout the car. But, I do understand your reasoning behind your choice.

Keep up posted with details as you get them back into production.

Cheers

Robert Espeseth 09-25-2019 01:17 AM

"went with the imperial size as these nuts are easy to find anywhere if you ever needed one quickly"

Not in Europe :)

Neil Harvey 09-25-2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Espeseth (Post 10603475)
"went with the imperial size as these nuts are easy to find anywhere if you ever needed one quickly"

Not in Europe :)

Understood. We did take the ROW into consideration so we will offer extra nuts into each kit if requested.

Neil Harvey 09-25-2019 01:37 PM

Here are some better photos showing each end of the stud and the nut and washer. The nut and washer are made from titanium. We will offer a steel version if required. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1569447268.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1569447303.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1569447327.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1569447370.jpg

The 964, 993 and the later water engines will be available also.

dannobee 09-25-2019 02:40 PM

Beautiful, Neil. Good job.

bpu699 09-27-2019 08:54 AM

You know what would be a technology leap forward? Make the entire shaft hexagonal rather than round. Easier to screw in, and if it breaks...to screw out...

Neil Harvey 09-27-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 10606197)
You know what would be a technology leap forward? Make the entire shaft hexagonal rather than round. Easier to screw in, and if it breaks...to screw out...

One of the many build tips I wish to address in the future. Our stud kits will come with an installation guide.

A departure from what is currently considered the "right way", is not to use any form of thread locker. The studs should be installed with anti friction grease and not bottomed out.

Then any need to remove is easy. Misunderstanding and fear cause most to misuse thread locker on head studs.

mepstein 09-27-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey (Post 10606231)
One of the many build tips I wish to address in the future. Our stud kits will come with an installation guide.

A departure from what is currently considered the "right way", is not to use any form of thread locker. The studs should be installed with anti friction grease and not bottomed out.

Then any need to remove is easy. Misunderstanding and fear cause most to misuse thread locker on head studs.

What should be used on exhaust studs? Doing them this weekend. Might as well do it right.

Walt Fricke 09-27-2019 05:10 PM

Anti-seize on the whole stud - the buggers are hard to get out, and if they get too hard to turn, you will torque them off - at least one. Hence, for instance, Stomski's tool to make drilling the broken stud out easier. If the nut gets seized, better to have the whole stud come out when taking your header off than to bust one off.

Or just put in dry.

Any reasonable torque will keep the nut in place, although you can use the sort of distorted (copper color, slot in upper part of nut) nut VW and Porsche sometimes used in low stress applications.

dannobee 09-28-2019 04:54 AM

Yup, copper high temp anti-seize on the exhaust studs.

Funny thing about exhaust studs. Engineers know how to keep them from breaking off, they just don't do it in the vast majority of automotive applications, even in high temp turbo applications. Cat and Cummins class 8 engines bolt up their exhaust manifolds with longer studs and a 1-2" spacer under the nut. And they rarely break.

mepstein 09-28-2019 11:41 AM

Thanks. I didn't mean to derail the thread other than Neil mentioning the correct way to install studs. Typically, I do something and then ask. LOL!


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