Pulley end oil seal

[patkeefe]

I just put in a new Kaco oil seal on the crankshaft, the #8 bearing end. I made a tool, worked great. When I was taking the tool off, I noticed the rubber lip which rides against the crankshaft surface was "twisted", that is, part of the lip was pointed inwards (as it should be), and part was pointed outwards. And, I had oiled this surface and the crank prior to installation.

I then took a plastic tool which is for plastic fasteners, and carefully pushed the lip such that it is now all in the correct position. I doubt I tore it in any manner.

My concern is that I may have popped the spring off the seal. How worried should I be? Should I buy a new seal and start over? I'm changing this seal because it was leaking from being assembled 10 years ago and never run until last week. Yeah, it leaked like a sieve.

[targa72e]

Unfortunately its very easy to pop the little spring off. I have had the same thing happen during engine assembly. I would pull and start over.

john

[patkeefe]

Thanks John,
I already ordered another gasket. I'm not going through the R&R again if I can avoid it.
Oat

[boyt911sc]

Pat,

What is that bright image seen from 11:00~1:00 o’clock sections on the oil seal? Is that the spring or just pigment of my imagination? Oil would be flowing out when you run the motor.

Tony

[patkeefe]

Tony, I think you're referring to the notch in the #8 bearing? That is some old Wurth sealer which got dislodged when I changed the bearings.

Interestingly, when I used the dye and the blacklight to check for leaks, the oil was a fluorescent sort of greenish (I'm colorblind, so that's my guess) However, the case seam is a really bright fluorescent yellow, which I assume is the Wurth sealant. Under regular lighting, I cannot see the bright yellow. I'm going to look into this some more (pun; unintended).
Pat

[Walt Fricke]

What sharp eyed Tony saw is between the squiggly lines I drew. Silver, might be the garter spring (which is the technical term for this spring).

Also, the arrows I added point out the huge at least apparent difference in the gaps on the right side (tight) and left side (wide) in the picture. Could that just be due to the angle of the photo?

[patkeefe]

Walt. I thought that might ne a gap issue also, but it is apparently the angle of the lens. I inspected it with great scrutiny, and the gaps are the same all around. I think the sealing surfaces are intact, but what about the spring? $64k question.

[patkeefe]

Posting this for posterity:
I pulled the pulley end seal off. I used the two drill screws and a nail puller method, as it leaves the seal more intact.

The spring was indeed off, and lying on the crankshaft. So, it probably would have lasted for a while, and then rubbed out the rubber lip and leaked.

I took the seal and reinstalled it with my homemade tool, to see how the spring fell off, so as not to repeat it with a new seal. I suppose if It gets inserted carefully, and I stop and inspect it on the install. and use lots of oil on it, it will be fine. I can't help but think that lots of these little seals are installed incorrectly and don't have problems related to said install. Maybe they are way more durable than I think.

Some random photos of the install and remove experiments. I've gotten good at putting it in without the spring falling off.

[Walt Fricke]

Good call on your part. Wow.

[patkeefe]

Put this back in..still has a leak at the pulley end. All else is good. I am going to pull it apart again today, and see if I can determine the source of the leak. I am really thinking it is the the little triangular shaft cover. I believe I have figured out a way to run the engine without the mounting cover over the pulley. I miss my test stand.

I ran the engine with the rear mounts removed, sitting on the motorcycle jack I use to R&R the engine. Evidently. it is the absolute worst case...o-Ring on #8 bearing.

Anyone know of a way to fix it? Without splitting the case?

[Walt Fricke]

Use the search. Someone made a sort of ring you can hold onto the shout with set screws or something, and it will hold sealant so the oil from the O ring won't just push whatever you goober there away.

I assume you are 100% sure that the leak is coming from the outside of the #8, not along the crank end past the inside seal?

[patkeefe]

100% sure it’s coming from the number 8 bearing. Right now I am de-turbo-izing the 3 L. I am resigned to the fact that I am going to have to take this engine back apart. I may try making a little ring as you suggest because I have a lathe and I can. At this point why not?

[gsxrken]

Pat, my condolences. Can’t imagine your face when you saw the leak/drip reappear.
We’ve all been there- “once more unto the breach” and all that. You’ll get it.
But de-turbo-ing? Is everything ok down there in FL? Heat getting to you?

[dap930]

Pat,

I feel your pain. When I rebuilt my engine many years ago, I had a leak from the #8 bearing/case joint. I disassembled the engine and replaced the #8 bearing with a new one since I had reused the original one. After reassembly, it leaked again . Disassembled again and changed the o-ring to the thicker Carrera o-ring. After assembly it leaked again . Disassembled again and applied case sealant to the #8 bearing area. Reassembled again and no leaks to this day .

[356911930]

Pat, Sorry to hear it's the #8 O-ring. I was afraid this would be the case. I'm in the same boat...waiting to save up funds for four years now to rebuild due to that #8 O-ring and a broken head stud.

Best of luck,

Rahl

[patkeefe]

Thanks all for the condolences. I am in the process of making a little ring to go around the outside of the #8 bearing. I got this idea from Walt. I quit working on it for today.

Ken, you know what look I had when I realized that it was the #8 o-ring. De-turbo-izing is this: The 3.0L SC engine was (years ago) not making enough power, so I put a turbo on it. But, when I rebuilt it the last time, I put 8.5:1 JE pistons in it, and it has DC-20 cams, EFI (I ditched the CIS a few years ago), and a few other things. Wifey didn't want to use the car because it has too much power. OK, fair enough. Not everyone wants scary acceleration. So, as I had kept the freshly rebuilt, 0 run time, 2.7 which was destined for the now gone 914 racecar, had Dema Elgin regrind some E cams to the Solex grind, and put that together. That is the long block that is leaking, since I built it 10 years ago. It was leaking at both seals, front and rear, and I pulled the engine out to replace those- this is after pulling the 3.0 out, and putting the 2.7 in.

Anyway. I made the 3.0 modular...I could take the turbo off, and it becomes essentially an SC again. I prefer not having to R&R the engine again (although I am getting pretty good at it). I'll post a picture of the new ring I'm building (in hopes of sealing the #8 bearing from the outside.

BTW, I did a leakdown on the 3.0 today...6% across the board, cold. Acceptable.

[356911930]

Tom Amon was the guy who made and sold these repair parts. he has moved to northern California but was on Pelican parts in the past. There may be some nuances about the design that he might be willing to explain to you. His business was called "Mobile Works West" I think.

Have a look at this thread:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/481430-successful-8-bearing-oil-leak-fix.html

Rahl

[Walt Fricke]

You should be able to find some discussion on Pelican, which is where I spotted this some while back. I think this is a picture of the piece.

[patkeefe]

I made a repair thread:
Pulley End Leak Repair