220k 3.2l What to do?

[OG911]

hey guys- need some advice (obviously)

have had my 85 911 since 95- was my daily driver for 20 years, before i relegated it to the garage when i needed a 4wd- now has approx 220k on it- just finished body and interior restoration and am down to give the engine some attention

i have never had one issue with the drive train- clutch is original and the engine has had no work!!!!- apart from the fact that it isnt quite as quick as it once was, there are no current issues

am planning on dropping engine and doing top end, at least- clutch, of course, as long as i'm in there- at this juncture, would love some thoughts from the gang as to what i might consider in terms of "moderate" performance upgrades - i dont need a track monster. but have fallen back in love with it and would really like to at least restore what the miles have taken and then maybe a bit extra

any advice re preliminary steps?- is any diminished power due most likely to valves?- compression vs leak down?

this is new ground for me- have turned plenty of wrenches over many decades, but engine makeover is new- have always simply switched them out

last but not least- anybody know of a good speed/machine shop for work on heads in savannah area?

thanks to all- chris

[PeteKz]

First and strongest advice: DON'T TOUCH IT. Just drive the snot out of it. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

WARNING: If you start a "top end refresh," you are teetering on the edge of the proverbial slippery slope. And it can easily get VERY expensive. "As long as you're in there, consider a better cam, and then think about increasing the compression and going to 3.4 pistons and cylinders; what the heck, you're in it that far, might as well split the case and reseal it, and renew the worn IMS bearings; and of course a new clutch, and might as well open the tranny, and put in some new synchro rings..." Start at $20K, and then potentially double that.

Since you probably will ignore that advice, Everyone here will want to know what your goals are for a rebuild. 250HP? Track car? Street racer? Daily driver?

Second, if you want to assure yourself that it's okay, do a compression test, or better yet, a leak down test. If the numbers are reasonable, refer back to advice #1.

Third, If you feel the itch to "do something" this winter and the engine is okay, then pay attention to your suspension. Almost certainly, the front A-arm, front sway bar, and rear spring plate, and rear swaybar bushings are worn and loose (rear arm bushings are probably okay, but inspect them). Shocks probably could use rebuilding or replacement (depending on what type they are). Lots and LOTS of threads about suspension here. Peruse those first, then come back with specific questions. Stiffer torsion bars will make it feel more planted and lively. These are all inexpensive (by Porsche standards).

[OG911]

Of the options, a 250hp occasion car would be just perfect.
Good thoughts re renewed suspension, certainly.
Have made call to schedule leakdown and will look forward to results. Suspect valves after all these miles but we will see.
Assuming valves, what might be next considerations?

[Tippy]

993SS cams ground from camgrinder here using your original cams and a MAF conversion ditching barn door AFM plus some good headers I’d think would be a cheap combo with nice power gains

[flat6pilot]

Fuel lines. Inspect and replace inside the engine compartment and underneath.

[PeteKz]

Good reminder on the fuel lines. At least check, if not preemptively replace.

[OG911]

leakdown scheduled for 12/13, so will get some info re the "necessaries"- what is the consideration with fuel lines?

[silverc4s]

Many heat cycles is a warning for fuel leakage. any leak will stand a good chance of engine fire, and demise of your car. a few hundred bucks for new fuel lines is a 20 to 25 year must do.

[Old H2S]

220Km, That's new.. Wait for your tests and worry less. The new parts you buy will be crappy compared to what's in there now.

[Cairo94507]

You could always buy my rebuilt (by Bruce Abbott (flat6pac) on this site. It was first fired in 2020 and has 9K miles on it. Sell your rebuildable motor, buy mine and drop it in and minimal down time.

I have it listed here in the classifieds. 964 cams and a custom Steve Wong chip - we figured about 240 HP. Runs great since the day we fired it up. Only removing as I came across a 3.6 that is going in my car. Link to ad: https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1146189-fs-87-3-2-carrera-motor-9k-miles.html

[OG911]

Originally Posted by Old H2S

220Km, That's new.. Wait for your tests and worry less. The new parts you buy will be crappy compared to what's in there now.

220km would be new. Mine has 220000 miles. So....back to the project.

[OG911]

Leakdown results yest.
#1 18%
#2. 0%
#3. 0%
#4. 60%
#5. 2%
#6. 69%

Help? Was told that compression was leaking out of oil cap. If rings, why such disparity among cylinders. Doesn't seem to make sense. Would head studs account for this? Thoughts?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by OG911

220km would be new. Mine has 220000 miles. So....back to the project.

So what is the result of the leak down test? That was 2 days ago.

Tony


Edit:

The result of the leak down test was not posted when I asked the question. It does not look good.

[PeteKz]

#4 and #6 are some pretty bad leak down results. Yes, broken studs could cause this, especially since they are adjacent to each other.

At this point I would swallow hard and take the heads off the engine on the 4,5,6 side and see what's going on. Report your findings.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by OG911

Leakdown results yest.
#1 18%
#2. 0%
#3. 0%
#4. 60%
#5. 2%
#6. 69%

Help? Was told that compression was leaking out of oil cap. If rings, why such disparity among cylinders. Doesn't seem to make sense. Would head studs account for this? Thoughts?

OG,

Replicate the test. Find out if you could get similar test results. Otherwise, the test could be flawed or erroneous. Good luck.

Tony

[OG911]

what factors to consider re whether to split case? have always heard that the bottom end was almost bulletproof

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

OG,

Replicate the test. Find out if you could get similar test results. Otherwise, the test could be flawed or erroneous. Good luck.

Tony

OP should buy a tester, and a screw in compression tester, both cheap, and learn more about his engine and what the test results mean in one afternoon that in days of back and forth on this forum and with a shop.

[AVI_8]

Originally Posted by OG911

what factors to consider re whether to split case? have always heard that the bottom end was almost bulletproof

If it’s done 220,000 miles I’d say it’s been bulletproof for you, bulletproof doesn’t mean it’ll last forever though.
If it has got to the point that a full top end overhaul is going to be done, with that mileage personally I’d be splitting the case to have everything checked and measured, often the intermediate shaft bearings are down to copper with higher mileage even if the crank bearings still have plenty life left.
The question you have to ask yourself is that if you do have to pay for a complete top end overhaul and you don’t split the case, then subsequently after it’s been rebuilt and something goes wrong with the bottom end, how are you going to feel having to get it completely stripped down again.
Yes it’s a slippery and expensive slope though, Did you do the leak down test? The reason I’m asking is that you’ve 2 cylinders with Zero, I’ve never seen Zero on a used engine leak down test before, especially with that mileage, that would make me suspicious about the numbers enough to have it tested again.

[OG911]

have ordered leakdown gauge and will re-do that test when i drop the engine after the holidays- i, too, was wonderous about zeros after all of this time- figure to get some equipment unbolted and get a good ear/read on leakage