Best engine for 68 912 to 911 conversion

[merbesfield]

What would be the best engine for my 911 conversion? 2.2, 2.2, 2.4, etc.
Should I only consider a complete engine that has been pulled vs. a short/long block and then sourcing all the missing parts? Seems like that could be a real PIA, but?
My transmission is a 902/02 so all I need is a motor.
I have never built a 911 motor before so I am looking for help. Thanks

[Walt Fricke]

Well, anything other than a 2.0 will require a different flywheel to go with your transmission. Though changing flywheels is not a big deal as long as you don't purchase a motor which is later than the 2.7 (last of the 6 bolt flywheels/cranks, exceptions excepted).

I think you are better off purchasing a complete motor. I'm currently building a race motor, and even with my somewhat extensive collection of bits and pieces from othe motors and blown up race motors, I'm always finding something I don't have or can't find, and those costs can add up pretty quickly.

How you find a used motor which still has a fair amount of life in it before rebuild time is something I don't know about.

For the mechanically inclined, rebuilding a 911 engine is not difficult. Time consuming, though.

Walt

[merbesfield]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Well, anything other than a 2.0 will require a different flywheel to go with your transmission. Though changing flywheels is not a big deal as long as you don't purchase a motor which is later than the 2.7 (last of the 6 bolt flywheels/cranks, exceptions excepted).

I think you are better off purchasing a complete motor. I'm currently building a race motor, and even with my somewhat extensive collection of bits and pieces from othe motors and blown up race motors, I'm always finding something I don't have or can't find, and those costs can add up pretty quickly.

How you find a used motor which still has a fair amount of life in it before rebuild time is something I don't know about.

For the mechanically inclined, rebuilding a 911 engine is not difficult. Time consuming, though.

Walt

Walt, thanks for the advice. I have read about the rebuild and agree, it does not look impossible, as long as you know how to read. As you said, time consuming for a novice first timer, but it is all there in black and white.

What do you think about a 72 2.4T motor. One of the S members here has one for sale and he says it runs well and is a complete unit. Mark

[Walt Fricke]

Well, its factory spec 140 HP would be a nice power boost for your 912. These might be as unstressed a 911 motor as Porsche made? But others with more experience in swapping engines around or with this motor may have more valuable opinions.

[BURN-BROS]

A 2 liter flywheel will bolt on to the 2.4, so I see no reason to swap a trans. I agree with Walt in sourcing a complete engine. The 2.4T would be a good fit in a short wheelbase car. It's always good when possible, to be able to drive the car that you are buying the motor from so keep an eye out.

[merbesfield]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

A 2 liter flywheel will bolt on to the 2.4, so I see no reason to swap a trans. I agree with Walt in sourcing a complete engine. The 2.4T would be a good fit in a short wheelbase car. It's always good when possible, to be able to drive the car that you are buying the motor from so keep an eye out.

Aaron and Walt, would the bump in HP of the 72T be enough to make the car fast? Maybe that is a dumb question, but.... I thought the car had 130 hp, not 140? I realize it is no S or a hopped up motor, but would it make the little SWB fast? As Walt mentioned, the T should be a solid base motor. Aaron, the engine is supposedly still in the car and can be driven, but it is a long way from me. Any idea what a reasonable value a motor like this would be worth? It currently has Webers which are available with the motor. Thanks, Mark

[JT912]

The 912 won't be any faster than a 911 with the same motor. Might benefit you to find someone willing to let you go for a ride to get an idea what you might expect with a 2.2, 2.4, or 2.7. My dad had a '74 Carrera with a modified 2.7 and it was freakishly fast. Keep in mind a large increase in power might require suspension, wheels, and brake upgrades to make handling and stopping safe.

[merbesfield]

Originally Posted by jt912

The 912 won't be any faster than a 911 with the same motor. Might benefit you to find someone willing to let you go for a ride to get an idea what you might expect with a 2.2, 2.4, or 2.7. My dad had a '74 Carrera with a modified 2.7 and it was freakishly fast. Keep in mind a large increase in power might require suspension, wheels, and brake upgrades to make handling and stopping safe.

jt912, i understand that, i just meant what motor is best for the SWB cars to not over power them and over weigh them given the size. M

[BURN-BROS]

Originally Posted by merbesfield

Aaron and Walt, would the bump in HP of the 72T be enough to make the car fast?

As fast as a 72T It's a subjective question so it's hard to define. It will be a mild ride with decent torque. Definitely good for a base to start with. It's no heavier than a 68 911 2 liter.

Originally Posted by merbesfield

Aaron, the engine is supposedly still in the car and can be driven, but it is a long way from me. Any idea what a reasonable value a motor like this would be worth? It currently has Webers which are available with the motor. Thanks, Mark

Can range from 2500-4500 or more....There are too many variables that determine price. If you cannot get a drive, perhaps another person can help you with that. An independent shop could also provide a PPI on a decent runner and give you feedback on how the engine performs. Keep in mind that a PPI can get expensive so you have to weigh that expense vs risk.

[tadd]

Merb:
I'm in the same boat, just a bit farther up river. 1967 SWB 912. I've gone the pieces parts route. There are times I've sorry I just didn't find an engine, but it really depends on what you want. I'm doing a screaming 2.8, and I would have tossed a lot of stuff anyway from a 'complete engine'. I used nickies, Mahle pistons, a small journal centerlube schrick cam reground to 3.8rsr on 102 LC (thus different trays), Ti rods all on an early aluminum case... so most parts would have been tossed anyway. BTW, 2.8s are freaking expensive FYI.

So if you want big displacement, go with a six. If you just want more power give a call to charles navarro at L&N and discuss his big bore nickes kit for the 616. A LOT has been done since the 912 handbook. You can have 160+ hp for a not unreasonable amount of money. It requires head work (~2-2.5k) and cylinders. Maybe toss in a set of his rods. If this info on the 616 had been there when I started collecting for the six in 2005 I would have gone this route. Toss in a twin plug kit from Wilhot (2k?) with high compression, and I would guess you could stomp an early S in power and still have the inherent handling of the shorter motor. Oh, and an additional cooler isnt even required!

Really worth looking into, IMHO. I do think sometimes about selling my 2.8 parts and doing a monster NASCAR reving 616, but the wife wants the car done so we can go get ice cream again. Any further delay would mean death .

tadd

[kenikh]

Overpowering an SWB? Not possible. A well set up SWB is a great car with any motor, 2 liter to 3.6 and even turbo. Buy a complete running motor, IMO, but don't limit yourself. A 9 bolt 901 flywheel is a fair compromise if you find the right 3 liter. That said, if your tranny has a 6 tooth ring and pinion, any 911 motor has the potential for problems, even a 2.4T.

[merbesfield]

At this point I am so confused. I keep going back and forth. Value of car vs. building what I want vs. build the 912, sell it, buy a 911 and do it again. This is not something I want to always be working on, I would like to drive it someday. As tadd points out, my wife would like to see a project finished and go for a ride someday. With all my project cars, she already thinks I am crazy.

[tadd]

Merb:
It's tough sometimes. There are too many options with 911s.

Build what you want and forget the originally crap. Have a ball. SWB with RS flares? You want it, do it. When your dust 100 years from now someone else can Chang it back .

Staying 616 will save dealing with all the oil stuff and no cutting engine mounts. I really wanted to rev, so I went six. If I could have anything it would be a late 2.0L twin cam four (type 7xx I think). Ultimate 912 upgrade in my mind.

As many have told me, pick a path and enjoy.

[Walt Fricke]

There is no equation for satisfaction (other, perhaps, than >$). If the car is in good shape, and the engine also, maybe the early 912s have held value? Not that many of them around.

So sell it, and buy an SC. All the power you need there, really. Durable motor if maintained and not abused.

Much quicker route to more performance, and probably less expensive.

But its your money, as long as you have it now.

Walt

[haycait911]

I have a '67 912. converted to a 3.0 and a 915. serious, serious fun. stock body, 6 inch rims. I love the flat sided look of the SWB caes. FWIW I would be very hesitant to add flares. with decent tires and suspension the handling will be fine. I did a 3.0 because they're strong and cheap to build, relatively. dynoed 250 hp and 2100 lbs surpises a LOT of people. here's some links......

3.0 dyno day - a pleasant surprise

3.0/915 in a SWB - the perfect combo?

took my SWB drag racing today.........

[haycait911]

Originally Posted by merbesfield

I have never built a 911 motor before so I am looking for help. Thanks

FWIW before I built my engine I'd never even rebuilt a lawnmower engine. see above. with resources like pelican I wouldn't hesitate.

[911st]

I am thinking a built 912 motor making up to 140hp would be faster, handle better, stop faster, and probably hold value better than a putting a T motor in it.

There have been some fun sport oriented 912's built.

[kenikh]

I have been thinking about your concerns and challenges and think that this might be a good alternative that meets your goals:

1969 912 Turbo Project Update.

Not turnkey, but doesn't require 911 engine mounts and has gobs of power.

[Walt Fricke]

The mind boggles comparing the effort to build a 912 turbo and that to move two motor mounts and plop in a 911.

[kenikh]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

The mind boggles comparing the effort to build a 912 turbo and that to move two motor mounts and plop in a 911.

Indeed! Still, it's an option.