Engine experts chime in please

[Lyndon302]

Have had the car not long.
Changed the oil got it running etc and it leaked oil didn't run right etc.
Did the top end. So in the last 3 to 4 thousand miles I've done the oil about 3 times.
This filter has done 3 K miles.
It has aluminium in it. More than I like.
The last two filters are the same. Maybe less aluminium in this last one.
The IMS had play and was noisy on shut down. I shimmed it and it's fixed. I wonder if the aluminium gear is wearing ??
I had damage to the chain covers re the chains hitting them. Previous damage I believe.. is it left over debris.
Or what ??? Is it time to pull the bottom end apart.
67 911 S
Thanks lyndon

[gsxrken]

Not an expert to be clear but… can you elaborate on the chain damage? Which side was hitting, how much what did you do about it etc.
I agree it’s quite concerning since we can assume you flushed any left over bits from the original issue when the bottom end was sort for the IMS gear.

[Lyndon302]

Bottom end has not been apart.
It's shimmed from our side on the the early engines. It had to much play and would clunk often on shut down against compression and wind out and Knock. Is this play from a worn gear. ( Aluminium )
The chains at some stage must have had a tensioner failure and have damaged the chain cases. When I pulled the top end the chains were fine and was the tensioners. ( Been repaired )
I did the valves seats. Rings. New chains. Chain guides. One sprocket. Kitted the tensioners. Two new cams. Some rockers. Gaskets and seals. I saw no sign of aluminium anywhere when I pulled it apart.
Since then I have done abi 4k miles. With a constant source of aluminium in the filter.

[Classic 911]

Following


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dannobee]

Prolly intermediate gear wear.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by dannobee

Prolly intermediate gear wear.

thats what i was thinking too , ive seen some pretty worn ones.

[Neil Harvey]

I hate it when asked, "Engine experts chime in". Always try to stay humble and never assume my expertise.

At this point if this bothers you, does it really matter where it is coming from. If you found out it was a failed part internally, would you leave it or tear the engine apart?

My "guess" is this is left over debris from an previous failure, caught in the oil passages, sump area or external oil system parts.

Now you have to figure out just how much this bothers you verses the cost to tear apart.

[Lyndon302]

It bothers me.
When I did the top end it was pristine inside. Saying that I hadn't cut a filter at that time.
Do these gears fail ?? ( If it is a worn intermediate shaft gear ?? ).
Just confirming this is too much debris on an old 911 ??
Lyndon

[boyt911sc]

Lyndon,

Give it another chance. Clean and rinse the internal parts of the motor to remove the residual aluminum fillings. Correct the problem with the timing chains hitting the housing and give it another try. And re-check after several hundreds miles or 1K miles. Keep us posted.

Tony

[OSC911]

I built an engine a while back. Not a Porsche but a Toyota 4AGE out of my AE86 race car. I checked the filter after my first sprint and got the sort of glitter you are getting. It took a few oil and filter changes to clear it up. I put it down to the ARP moly lube. Three years later and always 9000 rpm shift point no issues. If you are worried after a few oil changes, get an oil analysis done to confirm the material. In my instance, they asked if I had used the lube on assembly.

[Lyndon302]

What exactly does the lube do ??
These look like aluminium flakes ??
Lyndon

[ahh911]

Originally Posted by Lyndon302

What exactly does the lube do ??
These look like aluminium flakes ??
Lyndon

Moly lube made the first few oil changes look like glitter paint, but... I saved some glitter oil in clear containers and even after several months, there was no settling of any kind on the bottom of the container, so the glitter was fine enough that it stayed in suspension indefinitely or basically was fully embedded in the oil. The glitter would not be picked up by the filter.

Those slivers and small material you are showing would settle to the bottom in minutes if not seconds, so definitely not the same thing.

Phil

[Lyndon302]

It's out.
It's an absolute joy pulling this engine. When I went thru it a year or so ago.( was sitting for 20 years and full of rats nest etc. ) Renewed every nut and bolt and painted. So it's like working on a new car. A most enjoyable day.

[Lyndon302]

I will strip it down Monday.
It has timing chains that are linked. Also the pistons/ rings are not ideal. ( Was done at the peak of covid and I had to compromise )
This is a good excuse to part the case plus I have some goodies in the house.
Lyndon

[cgarr]

oh straight cut gears

[Richey]

How come you're not using Wossner pistons ? Aren't you in Great Britain ? Neil Bainbridge is an advocate of Wossner pistons which got my attention .

[Lyndon302]

I'm in Australia.
To dear. These were quite reasonable.
Lyndon

[Lyndon302]

Ok
A bit late but it's apart.
Not a detailed look but.
All std bearings.
Looking really good for sept 66 engine.
No debris what so ever.
Had 930 tensioners with linked chains. Also savers fitted to the tensioners.
The chain cases as I'm mentioned are damaged.
I think in the past it had a tensioner failure.
Left over debris.
Lyndon

[dannobee]

What's up with the wear at the edge of the teeth on the aluminum intermediate gear. Does the pic show the worst of it?

[Lyndon302]

I never noticed that. Was getting late and just got it apart.
I will have a closer look tomorrow.

Lyndon