Permatex Anaerobic doesn’t seem to be curing. Is this a problem??
 

I installed the heads and cam plate 48 hrs ago. I used Permatex Anaerobic gasket maker. It does not seem to be curing. At least the squeeze out is still not cured. Should I be concerned? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...094a958ac5.jpg


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Sealant
 

As it says below, the lack of oxygen is what cures this sealer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1663117902.jpg

Yeah I read that, but I think I just needed reassurance! I have never used it before and this being a pretty monumental project for me I have just been overly concerned.

I did do a small test piece tonight on some other aluminum pieces I have. I hope to get up in the morning to that fully cured! I would then feel better! :-p

Thanks for the reassurance!


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Anything that squeezes out will never set.

I remember worrying about this with loctite 574 years ago. The stuff you see won't set since it's exposed to O2. If you want to convince yourself, put some between a couple pieces of metal you dont care about and let it set, and then check it.

Use the tried and true methods of sealing your engine or you’ll end up with an oil leak.

I did that last night and it was cured this morning! I just needed the confirmation! Thanks for the response!

I apply the 574 real thin. The key to it is, don’t let surfaces contact, maintain air gap until all the hardware is in place, then close gap and rattle all nuts down and torque. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1663297942.jpg

Well I was definitely more generous with the Anaerobic Permatex than that!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5ccf80c1a1.jpg



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That is too much....

Just a bit...

I can’t remember exactly what it said in Dempsey’s book (Maybe it was a video I watched?) , but I believe it said use a generous amount and that you want to see some squeeze out. I guess we will see if it leaks! :-/


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wow.....should squeeze out everywhere. LOL I just apply a bead around the perimeter per the factory manual ( for Loctite 574) same stuff basically.

H

The problem with applying too much is where does the squeeze out go? Answer, into engine cavities and oil pumps and cam spray bars etc. With sealers, more is not better.

If your cam towers/heads have not been installed, I suggest you start over. If that area leaks you're looking at 25 hours to go back in and reseal. There is no way to repair without disassembly.
Remember, if it leaks after installation you have to remove the engine, remove the intake and fan shroud, disassemble at least one side [remove chain box cover, break down the cam chain sprocket, remove the rockers, remove the cam, pull the heads, separate the heads from the cam towers, clean off old/perhaps dry sealant] and then reassemble. Just setting the cam timing makes a redo time prohibitive.

Hmmm..

So I am confident now its all cured. Why do you think it will leak? I cleaned and removed all the squeeze out. I also used some aluminum scrap and tested the sealant and it cured no problem. Thanks!


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I’d be less concerned with a leak than I would that there’s a thicker layer of the sealant than you really want between the heads and cam towers.

Do you think torquing everything to spec would just squeeze any excess resulting in the proper clearances?


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If the excess creates a tolerance issue, you'll know when the cams are installed.
If the cams turn easily by hand the thick layer of goo might not matter.
Roll the dice and hope you make your number.
On this table, the unexpected is the house.

Maybe, but I've seen excess 574 create all kinds of tolerance issues.

Permatex Anaerobic doesn’t seem to be curing. Is this a problem??
 

Ok.. it’s not worth the risk! I’ll pull it apart clean everything and redo it with less sealant!

I’ll try and document what it looks like and if everyone thinks it was needed once we see it! Regardless it’s worth the piece of mind.


Should I order some 574 or continue with the anaerobic Permatex?

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Excellent thanks! Is 50ml enough?


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The issue with anaerobic glue is if an air gap isn’t maintained, and as thick as you applied it, it’s plausible a gap wasn’t maintained. When the air is gone, it sets super fast, I’ve disassembled engines that were fresh and found .020” hard as cement glue build up between case 1/2’s, heads and cam housing. It’s worth considering a tear down now.

Like about everyone has said, that red stuff is laid on way way too thick. With 574 you lay a thin bead, then take a mini-paint roller to it (if you wish - not essential) to cover where it counts, and assemble. This produces very little squeeze out, which you can remove with a rag (again, not essential but why have stuff which will eventually harden with heat, serve no purpose, and just maybe break off and get somewhere it shouldn't, like what squeezes out into the port).

What I have never understood is why so many seem to apply sealant to the middle between the intake and exhaust. Nothing to seal there. Oil has no access to that area. 18 studs are more than enough to keep the cam from lifting the cam carrier up off the heads.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1663875839.jpg

Ok! So I have remove my one side! There is ALOT of squeeze out but it does seem to be sealed well and in a very thin layer.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...14bbcedeae.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...838e3e025f.jpg


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Why would you spend all the time and money assembling a motor and then disregard something as simple as using the tried and true methods of sealing your motor. Yeh it’s not rocket science but you’d be foolish not to listen to people like Henry and others who have assembled 100’s of motors.

Firstly, I sealed this before I began this thread. So any knowledge gained from this thread and resulting actions would be reactive. I also followed the procedure in my reference material. The wording for the amount of sealant used is VERY subjective. So I assumed better to be on the thick side.

After creating this thread and learning from others. I removed everything cleaned it and I am reinstalling with 574.

So I am not sure how I am being foolish by not listening too them? Seems to me I am taking their advice.

Now did I ask questions? Sure who wouldn’t!

Also, I posted what it looked like in there so others would know in the future.

Thanks all for the help!


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Building these stone aged air-cooled engines is a challenge. Getting them to seal was even a challenge for the factory using experienced assemblers and new parts. Even with new parts, about 4% of the 964 engine leaked during break-in on the dyno.
There is no "right" way, there is just experience mixed with a little good luck. You're doing the right thing, you're asking questions. Now you're challenge is to weed through the noise to find the "right" advice.
Good luck with your project, we'll be here if you have other questions.

Wow! 4% fall out in the factory for leaking…that’s nuts! My first engineering job was an industrial engineering job for Navistar Diesel and quality would be murdered for that kind of fallout! :-/

My 574 came in the mail yesterday. It’s crazy how different the viscosity is when compared to the Permatex. I cleaned everything up and added a MUCH smaller amount of sealant and torqued everything back down. [emoji1696]

Time to start timing this thing!

Thanks all for the help!

Keep up posted on the progress!

Cheers

Lots of updates in the build thread!


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That's why I'm done with that stuff.

Why? Because there is a book out there that says you should.... :)

Cheers

Yes, but not the factory manual. It says lightly coat the sealing surfaces (I looked it up).

On the other hand, this kind of thing mainly matters to guys with race engines who do their own work. Those come apart and get put back together more often, so simplifying things is useful. Same for shops (which is where I first saw the simpler and slightly quicker method).

There at least is a rationale for coating the case parts which extend out to the bearings. None here I can conjure up. In the long run, just a minor thing for guys who want to know why, not just how.

But you left out the picture?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1668872089.jpg

Sealant
 

You have never seen how I can slop paint with a rollerhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/pukeface.gif

574
 

This has worked for me for decade's
Bruce http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669324863.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669324863.jpg

Thats what the guy with a shop showed me 25 years ago, though he (and thus I) circled all three bolt holes (maybe some oil could creep up the threads?) and skipping the side-to-side connector when I realized no way oil could get there to go anywhere.

But a little too much is better than a little too little.